Running Online Communities is Better in Moderation
After I banned several members of the Drudge Retort earlier this month, they launched their own blog, PoliticalWarZone, with an announcement that they were being repressed:This Blog was started by five guys (RZ, JA, DKIA, STP & H) who simply got tired of all the BS of the supposed wonderland of Open Expression on the 'Net.
The Leftists claim they adore & stand for Free Speech & then use it to hammer anyone who doesn't agree with them right before they take it away. They'd rather tell you how immoral you are for standing up for what you think is true than to actually debate.
I'm glad they started their own site and will provide technical advice where I can, even though they believe I've become a censor-happy dink. If PoliticalWarZone takes off, they'll learn that a commitment to free speech buys a lot of aggravation. No matter what the rules are, an online community will inevitably attract some people who believe it's their solemn duty to resist them. These people will have more time than you do, because they haven't made the mistake of starting their own blog.
This is especially true on a political site, because you can never convince some people that the rules are being enforced without political bias. Changing the rules of the Retort had nothing to do with my "government-sponsored medicinal marijuana for gay whales" liberal beliefs. I got tired of spending more than an hour a day dealing with a small crowd of gleefully obscene, rules-flouting hellraisers on a community with 3,000 members.
Before PoliticalWarZone gets too established, I think they should consider a move from BlogSpot to TypePad. Movable Type, the software that powers TypePad, is much more flexible and powerful than the Blogger software running BlogSpot, and its template tags enable anyone with HTML skills to customize how a blog presents weblog entries and comments.
For example, they could use the MTComments tag to create a recent comments page like the one on the Retort:
<MTComments lastn="50" sort_order="descend">
<MTCommentEntry><MTEntryTitle></MTCommentEntry>
<MTCommentBody>
Posted by <MTCommentAuthor> at <MTCommentDate format="%Y-%m-%e %X">
</MTComments>
The Retort employed Movable Type for more than a year, though I eventually wrote my own software when it couldn't handle thousands of user comments a day without big delays as pages were republished.
Comments
RCADE,
Thank you for the advice. I did not leave Drudge due to your rules. I do see a semi-unfair application of those rules, but community standards should always determine what is too far and the community on Drudge is very liberal, so I understand.
I left because debate is impossible there because of the rules and how some there try to use those rules to drive away those they do not like.
Scarey_e and Bill O are to prime examples of that.
How many emails do you get from righties asking for a lefty to be banned compared to how many you get from a leftie making the same request of a rightie.
Yes, there is a cost of free speech. I believe we are willing to pay it. I hope we are strong enough to pay it.
There are those I am with who may wish the end of DR, but I am not one of those. I just do not feel that DR is a place for me to grow. It is a site for posting news stories for the purpose of debate.
I am interested in writing my own. I know anything originial I post at DR would be attacked by people who have not read beyond the headline and who wrote it. Ironically, I have not found that to be the case at PWZ, and I do not agree with them poilically very often.
I still linked to DR and still go there from time to time, but cannot post there anymore. I hope you understand.
I see the same complaint for Kanrei that I see from the bloogers mentioned earlier. "I do see a semi-unfair application of those rules" and just like the other bloggers--no examples given. I have asked for examples to be given, but have never gotten a response. The people who left were never known for debating skills and never offered anything thoughtful to the conversation.
"I left because debate is impossible there because of the rules and how some there try to use those rules to drive away those they do not like.
Scarey_e and Bill O are to prime examples of that."---Again no examples--but who cares---I've seen drama queens leave with less fanfare than Kanrei.
I would like the answer to this question though.--"How many emails do you get from righties asking for a lefty to be banned compared to how many you get from a leftie making the same request of a rightie"---I would bet money that the righties were whining most. I would bet very few lefties asked for righties to be banned The righties listed were all whiners that boo hoo hooed everytime they were made to look foolish--which was all the time then they'd blame the lefties when they got a dump. But I would admit I was wrong if Rcade says more lefties complained---but I would like to know who complained more about the other side. So Kanrei was looking for a site more to his liking---I'm glad he succeeded.
Thanks for your offer of assistance. Like Kanrei, I didn't leave because of censure. I became tired of a lot of posters attitudes and unwillingness to discuss things without rancor.
Where do you stand on 911thetruth.org?
I have NEVER EVER written to RCADE and requested ANYONE be banned...I have never written to RCADE complaining about ANYONE in any form.
I have written to alert RCADE of LINKS to obscene pages.
And I believe I am owed an apology...
I repeat NEVER have I done so...
I certainly hope that RCADE has the sense of fairness to verify my claim...
Scarey_e
"I've seen drama queens leave with less fanfare than Kanrei."
HAHAHAHA!
I posted one good bye link because I owed my friends there that much. Buffalo Bob, you are not one of them so I could care less what you think.
I posted here to RCADE. It was to him I addressed my post. If I really wanted the "troll opinion", I would have gone to DR.
I know anything originial I post at DR would be attacked by people who have not read beyond the headline and who wrote it. Ironically, I have not found that to be the case at PWZ, and I do not agree with them poilically very often.
Hey Kan,
If your site ever gets 3,000 users, I can pretty much guarantee you there will be people who will attack you prematurally. I don't think it is the nature of Drudge or the nature of people on Drudge, but the nature of people in general that is the problem. If you get a big enough gathered together in one place, there will always be a certain percentage of rude, short-sighted people in the crowd.
You have to wonder, why were conservatives so enamored of a liberal site that they would invest a substantial portion of their lives in 'living' there?
Could it be because they stood out, by contrast, rather than blending in with the multitude at a conservative site? Plus, they got the thrill of battle with the infidels. How can you be a proper crusader without infidels, at whom you brandish your sword, and make feints and fell swoops.
So I think PoliticalWarZone is a good name for their blog, because it really sums up their whole mentality.
Now I wonder if they're going to cannibalize each other.
BTW,
As a poster who never got a dump, never got a ban, never got a deleted post and had tons of "funny" flags, do you really think I was "never known for debating skills and never offered anything thoughtful to the conversation."
"I posted one good bye link because I owed my friends there that much"
One goodbye post too many, and one explanation and insult to the DR too many. You didn't have much to offer and you could never admit a mistake. I would bet you still insist you mispelled seceded to succeeded. Gee--all you had to do was change the "e" to a "u", add another "c", and add anotherm "e". You didn't mispell anything---you spelled the word you wanted correctly, and you spelled it several times correctly. You just didn't know the correct word and weren't man enough to admit your ignorance.
I'm still waiting for Rcades response as to who whined to him most to ban other posters.
BTW---I wasn't talking about you when I said "The people who left were never known for debating skills and never offered anything thoughtful to the conversation." I was talking about the ones mentioned as forming PWZ.
Also I would have to say that after "mispelling" seceded, you would have to have seen that you had spelled "succeeded" several times and accepted that as the word you wanted.
"If your site ever gets 3,000 users"
My site never will. I have no desire for it to. I made it as an archive for things I write and as a place for me to talk to people like you and Lisa. To be honest, if it ever got close to that big, I would take it down and start a new one.
You didn't have much to offer and you could never admit a mistake.
I disagree. Kanrei did contribute to the board, and he was capable of apologizing, which is something some people can't do no matter what.
Bob,
You addressed this to me:
"You didn't have much to offer and you could never admit a mistake."
Seems like same thought as "never offered anything thoughtful to the conversation". I know, impossible, you don't think.
Enjoy DR.
You keep banning them and we will keep getting them. Soon, you will have 5 people who all agree posting "yea, I know" over and over again.
Kan,
Sorry, when I said your site, I didn't mean your personal site but the Political War Zone blog.
Everything, man, is better in moderation.
Including this thread.
Bob,
You addressed this to me:
"You didn't have much to offer and you could never admit a mistake."
Seems like same thought as "never offered anything thoughtful to the conversation". I know, impossible, you don't think.
Gee you should read a little closer----I said you didn't have MUCH to offer, which means that every now and then you had a point. Now the other wording says NEVER offered anything. Get the difference? The fact that it seems the same to you shows faulty reasoning or poor reading comprehension. Take your pick.
Lao Tzu says Buffalo Bob will never win the award for Mr. Congeniality.
Gal---That was never my goal. Is it yours?
Bob, I was going to add:
Not that he ever wanted to.
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
I seen you 'round for a long long time
I really 'membered you when you drink my wine
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
I seen you walkin' down in Chinatown
I called you but you could not look around
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
I bring my money to the welfare line
I see you standing in it every time
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
The color of your skin don't matter to me
As long as we can live in harmony
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
I'd kinda like to be the President
so I can show you how your money's spent
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Sometimes I don't speak too bright
but yet I know what I'm talking about
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
I know you're working for the CIA
they wouldn't have you in the Mafia
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
-- WAR
YOu put a song in my head Chris...damn you!
Hi BTW.
I see Chris is trying to win the talent portion of the contest.
RCADE,
I came to this site to post to you. I am sorry it became a "trolling attraction." All I wanted to do was explain a bit to you about why I left and to thank you for the offer. I passed it onto Horace.
KANREI, I really don't know who you are trying to fool or who you are trying to mess with , but please read the following posts from the RETORT today...
can't recall ever getting an e-mail complaint from Scarey_E about another user.
Since flags were added, no one e-mails complaints. They flag them as abusive or offensive and move on.
Posted by rcade at 2006-07-18 04:37 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive
Thank you RCADE
I have never contacted you except about the scat, porno links and in the last few days about 3 posters "locked" out with the problems of late.
Posted by Scarey_e at 2006-07-18 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive
You know this is a website don't you KANREI, where other's see your post and the reply...You could have emailed RCADE...
Methinks you are disingenuous...and you owe me an apology for posting LIES about me...
You are such a joke Scarey_e. Why don't you go post another threat to RCADE that you will make him lose his ads unless he bends to your will again?
"can't recall ever getting an e-mail complaint from Scarey_E about another user"
He can't recall ever? That does not he never. You admit to sending him one ABOUT ANOTHER POSTER in your own thread: " have never contacted you except about the scat, porno links.
I am afraid your spinning has made you dizzy...or have you always been that way?
Can't admit you are a liar I guess, and you end up calling RCADES truthfulness into question...
When I emailed RCADE it was about those scat and porno links. Your friends posted them, perhaps even you....
So are you calling RCADE a liar?
I have never lied about you. Don't care enough about you to bother making one up. Besides, you provide enough fodder daily on your own.
Have a nice life. Tell RCADE's sponsors I said "Hi" next time you get upset.
"perhaps even you...."
You are so pathetic.
"The people who left were never known for debating skills and never offered anything thoughtful to the conversation."
Buffalo Bob | 2006-07-18 12:56 PM | link
You are really something else. Come into our blog where I am still alowed to post & where no one surreptitiously, or for reasons not clearly spelled out, will summarily delete your posts.
Then you can have the "debate" you & I agreed to awhile back. As a matter of fact, we can have the debate that I challenged you to & for doing so I was then banned.
"I see the same complaint for Kanrei that I see from the bloogers mentioned earlier. "I do see a semi-unfair application of those rules" and just like the other bloggers--no examples given. I have asked for examples to be given, but have never gotten a response."
Uhhh, does that qualify for "unfair standards," B Bob?
If you don't get it now, you never will -- Mr. "Debate Champion"!!
HORACE
BBob, your attack against Kan is beyond pathetic. Anybody who has an unpopular opinion runs the risk of being added to the Idiots Pantheon there. Not that it is filled with idiots, just merely assembled by them.
One person, like "Bob" makes a claim in response to a statement or argument that is simply an ad hominem. Then it gets repeated by the rabble so many times it is accepted as truth, as if straight out of Pravda.
I honestly think you guys have told yourselves so many lies to justify what goes on in the DR that you don't even know the difference anymore.
H
Rcade, you are ultimately the problem here. Your unclear rules applied haphazzardly to build up the Liberal defenses costs you credibility & eventually members because people couldn't take the inequities, injustices & resulting chaos anymore.
This is the Drudge Kindergarten.
Then a great mind like you will fit right in, huh "Sarah"?!!
I don't think I have seen anything as incestuous or demented as this Rcade as "Great Leader" since Mao died.
Here you are killing their beloved blog & they still huddle round you to sing your hossanahs like a group of frogs croaking beneath a half-blinded owl.
Only Liberals could act like such a covy of body snatcher pods.
Rcade--still no response as to who whined the most about the other bloggers. If it was the left I will apologize, but I still think the whiners were mostly from the right.
As to the rest of the posts--the only point I got from the PWZ crowd was---Bob's a jerk.
ho hum.
Bob, you are proving right here you are a jerk. So what's the point in complaining when people call you one?
Bob I dont care, join if you want. I only hated 2 people on DR and you weren't one of them.
JA, Bob has the DR disease. They couldn't properly debate anyone in there & so they made up a set of fables as intoxicating as anything in the Classical world.
It became so much more enchanting to drone on & on about how bad we were that they got lulled to sleep by their own dishonest myths.
Now they have swallowed the lies so many times their brains are cooked & they don't even know which way is up, anymore.
They know they couldn't lie & get away with it, though, in a free speech forum where there is no moderator looking to defend them.
That's why these guys are opposed to free speech, btw. Like all true modern liberals, more freedom is their biggest enemy since it threatens to destroy their web of lies by shining light onto it.
H
"Scarey_e and Bill O are to prime examples of that.
How many emails do you get from righties asking"
Hey Kanrei, bite me. And good riddance.
Rcade - thanks for the advice. I take it you still want some cash for politicalwarzone.com?
Bob - Wow!!! Words can't describe my feelings for you. I do hope you get some therapy. You have SUCCEDED in being the saddest human on the planet.
Smile once in awhile, it'll make your hemrroids clear up.
REF: FIE ---
"I don't think I have seen anything as incestuous or demented as this Rcade as "Great Leader" since Mao died.
Here you are killing their beloved blog & they still huddle round you to sing your hossanahs like a group of frogs croaking beneath a half-blinded owl.
Only Liberals could act like such a covy of body snatcher pods."
WOW!.... some of you folk have been smoking too much of that Ann Coulter s***!
Wot is the phrase that keeps running thru Spuds brain at times like these?...
"all the subtle dynamics of a playground fight at recess"
Yes! That's the one!
Seriously, peoples!
These outraged cries of "Tattletale!" and "Jerk!" grow really old, really quick.
Fer the record, Spud has recieved an invitation to blog along with the folks over at PWZ and while Spud certainly doesn't discount the possibility of a cameo or two, Spud much prefers the debate going on over at the Retort at present.
"The joint is jumping
The joint is really jumping!"
Spud will hold to the opinion that, in the main, the core group who broke off to form PWZ were far more concerned with off-topic, self absorbed, ramblings and caustic bitter invective than they were about serious debate over the all too pressing concerns of the day.
Spud makes exceptions fer Kanrei and admits to being somewot puzzled over his departure.
His commentary above is appreciated by the tater o' doom as it helped Spud make more sense of that particular decision.
Which is to say ...some!
Spud sputters off in the general direction of the Drudge Retort.
Be Well.
In case you were just scanning the above and not really paying attention, dethspud aka darth tater aka the killa potata aka darth tater has entered blogworld thru the side door
stage left.
Rcade is a saint. That is all.
Rcade is a saint. That is all.
Uhhh, rcade is an 'Aint, to which could be attached many brilliant statements...
Just a few observations.
I think Rogers is showing genuine class, in giving the Zonies any attention at all, much less actually offering his advise to facilitate their success.
Rogers,
From what I've seen, at PWZ from those you kicked off the island, I would cut the cord. Let them raise their own baby, and don't ever look back.
These people were forced to start the PWZ because they simply could not follow the rules of DR. Yet they continue to come here, and claim some sort of bias. There are many posters to the DR, from both sides, who have had few problems because they understand the simple nuance of civility. The initial founders of the PWZ (I'm not counting Kanrei with them) either did not understand the rules, or decided to ignore them. Either way they did themselves out of the DR, and have no one to blame but themselves. Yet they are still claiming here, and on their own blog, today that all their problems can be traced to RCade's heavy hand.
Zonies,
Get over it. Go build your blog, and quit crying. The intellectual level of debate' at the DR is much better without you. When you're not crying about the DR, PWZ isn't that bad either. Just because you're the bastard children of DR doesn't mean you can't grow up, and have productive lives. Good luck, and good-bye.
To those of you that have decided to turn this thread into a playground sand throwing contest grow up already! Most of us don't really care if Scarey tattled, Kanrei lied, who BBob thinks can engage in meaningful conversation, or why Horace is a legend in his own mind.
Ms Sarah is correct.
This is the Drudge Kindergarten.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
That's the holy First Amendment that free-speech yahoos get on about. Free speech is a good thing. I firmly support the notion that citizens should be able to say what's on their mind without worrying about the government getting on their arse about it. That's cool.
However, people with working neurons will note that the First Amendment applies to Congress. It doesn't apply to message board moderators or other private citizens who wish to make rules about what can and cannot be said in communications fora that they control. It also doesn't apply to Canadians, Brits, Chinese, or anyone else who is not American. The constitutional guarantee of free speech is a law binding on the government of the United States of America only.
I'm not a big fan of heavy-handed moderation. But as a practiced moderator of message boards, I know all too well that sometimes you have to apply the great pimp-slapping hand of moderation and kick out the douchebags who simply believe they have some divine right to be obnoxious and disruptive.
I say you've done a great job.
I love it when someone claims a right to free speech on a server costing me $225 a month. I did the same thing, years ago, when I was a BBS geek who got kicked out of Jerry Pournelle's GEnie forum.
It's like walking into somebody's house and asserting your right to be served a ham sandwich.
rcade, no one in their Right Mind would claim you offered or provided Free Speech. As we have all seen you carefully screen it for merit, Liberal merit -- as contradictory a notion as is that one.
But you ought to at least read Neitzsche's Will To Power to learn how to express yourself more artfully on topic.
He never used the
He never used the
Who Cares, yet another member (ie pubic louse nit) of the noisy Illiteratti who chime in on rcade's defense like a swarm of flies defending their airspace & landing rights at Fresh Kills.
The fact is, nobody gives a rodent's hindquarter what you all think. Your never ending critique of why certain persons were banned has all the resonance of an incantation laid down over the carcass of roadkilled pigeon by adolescent neopagans.
We are drawing people from the outside world, something rcade has apparently lost the ability to do. But look at what he has to work with -- you have all the attractiveness of survivors of a nuclear holocaust.
The leftover gene pool at the DR is so decimated it wouldn't do justice to a study of the genesis of mongoloidism.
Enjoy your intellectual ghetto, & the hell of being damned to a life of perpetual carping, smallfry.
Pablo Guernico
Peco, you are truly a Dumbazz for the Ages! Your knowledge of Consitutional Law is so defficient you ought to be lecturing at the academy of National Public Radio!
The Free Speech codicil is a directive on the LAWS of the U.S. In other words, you cannot legislate away the Right of Unfettered Expression.
One has a Free Speech in the DR just as much as anywhere else. While rcade may have a proprietarial advantage in being able to remove someone's free expressions this in no way takes away their 1st Amendment Rights!
You DR clowns are dangerously close to a reborn fascism that is stunning in its legal, historical & humanistic ignorance.
Bravo, Paco!!
Here's an interesting article on free speech in private meatspace forums. The issue's not as clear-cut as I had assumed. I'll be curious to see, in the future, how things play out regarding free speech in private online forums.
http://www.slate.com/id/2079885/
In the meantime, I'll exercise my free speech rights to say, "Major Tom Paine, GFY and STFU."
Achilles, heel, boy.
You don't know what you think you do, let's just say that.
Technically, there is no such thing as "Internet Law," only legal rules applied to the various areas that the Internet touches upon.
If you are doing your "legal research" through Slate, you are already at a disadvantage.
Try Lexis next time. Or better yet, invest in a 3 year JD so you don't suffer from the great bane of the "self-appointed jurist" Ignorosis of the Liver.
Paris
Oh, & I won't bother cursing you back, cuz you simply don't rate little sparrow.
You don't know what you think you do
Huh? I didn't claim knowledge of anything. In fact, I acknowledged my ignorance on the topic.
Technically, there is no such thing as "Internet Law,"
Yes, I realize that. That's why I said "in the future." The Internet's in its youth; give it a few years.
If you are doing your "legal research" through Slate, you are already at a disadvantage.
Never said it was "legal research," just an "interesting article."
Peace.
I guess you got plastered by Paris, huh smartazz "Achilles"?
You are so far out of your league you are like a 3rd grader trying to make it into the NFL.
You deserve a place like this to skulk around in, ignor-anus!!
Paris
Uh... yeah. Work on your reading comprehension skills.
Hey little boy, maybe you should ask unkle rcade to change your nappy before picking a fight?
Act like clown, get trated like one.
Paris
A fight? Really, guy, you might want to relax. You're letting seven letters, posted by a stranger on the Web, get you all worked up. I apologize for saying "GFY and STFU" - I never realized it would have such a profound emotional impact that, after 9 days, you would still be hurling grade school taunts at someone who's not even bothering to respond in kind.
Seriously, for your own sake, let it go.
"Running online communities better in moderation"?
Being a moderator is better in moderation?
GROOOOOAAN!
Spud is not sure if he's groaning due to the absolute sheer awfulness of that joke or the fact that it took Spud six months to get it.
Prolly a bit of both.
This thread aint cut off yet?
Rcade is await more victims, no doubt.
Be Well.
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