Deployment Details Put Sarah Palin's Son in Jeopardy
Back in February, the British press ripped Matt Drudge for revealing a secret they'd been keeping: Prince Harry was stationed in Afghanistan, deployed with the British Army in Helmand Province. The secret had gotten out in an obscure Australian magazine and German's Bild newspaper, and Drudge passed the news along to his audience of millions. Brits were so outraged that they mistakenly started sending me a flood of hate mail.
Given this, it's worth noting that the British press is now putting another high-profile soldier in danger by reporting details of his service in a war zone. Two major British newspapers have reported where Track Palin, the son of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, will be serving when he's deployed to Iraq.
Track Palin, son of the potential US vice-president, will be heading for the Middle East next week to prepare for military service in one of the most dangerous corners of Iraq.
A year after enlisting in the US Army on the sixth anniversary of 9/11, Private First Class Palin will fly to Kuwait next Thursday for acclimatisation, and will be deployed a few weeks later to an area of Diyala province teeming with al-Qaeda insurgents.
It will not be an easy tour for the 19-year old, who is assigned to 1-1 Bravo Company, 52nd Infantry, 1st Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, based at Fort Wainwright, Alaska.
The Daily Mail also told its readers that Palin will train in Kuwait and serve in Diyala.
I'd omit these details if the stories weren't already widely reprinted all over the web and in news syndication, showing up on places like Yahoo News and Lucianne.Com. Jon Soltz, an Army captain previously stationed in Iraq, writes that revealing specific details of a soldier's deployment, such as dates and locations, is a violation of operational security:
It is simply impossible that any reporter could figure this out on their own. Just by knowing Track's name and the date he is heading to Kuwait, one could not figure out specifically where Track and his company would be going in Iraq. There's a reason it's impossible to figure that out -- because the military doesn't want that information out there. It only serves to aid the enemy to know where are troops are moving. ...
If the McCain-Palin campaign has disclosed details about Track's company's movements to gain stories in the press about it, they will have put many American lives in danger -- not the least of which would be Track's.
The amount of detail in the Daily Mail suggests that someone close to the Palins revealed the information about Track's deployment, but it's filed by reporter Tim Albone from Combat Outpost Zaganiyah in Diyala Province, so it's possible that a military source in Iraq revealed these details. In any case, it seems to me that whoever did it painted a target on his back, and the military should adjust its plans accordingly.
Comments
I agree, they should alter his deployment if the real secret is out.
Anyone stop to think that the operational detals were released on purpose in order for the GOP VP nominee to get her son home.
I doubt its favoritism due to his moms position - I'm more inclined to think its all about the political fallout that would happen if he was KIA or badly wounded.
"I doubt its favoritism due to his moms position - I'm more inclined to think its all about the political fallout that would happen if he was KIA or badly wounded."
I agree. However, perhaps like the arrogant royal family, the patriotic Palins will not allow any such redeployment, and for pride, subject the nation to even more negative comparisons with the yellow-dog-democrats who bark and whine with greed over all the costs and, and want to lose a war in order to gain votes; party over nation sort of subversions they also practiced in abandoning South Vietnam. That would be unfair, surely, causing even more muck to be raked against the family, by Progressives, in revenge for being a brave American soldier!
For the disturbed angst of the cowering Leftist Progressives -- Change Track's Assignment!
... please ...?
I was assigned to Vietnam, and about a month prior to my deployment, Kansas City radical Leftists published lists of local families who had soldiers going to Vietnam ... but only those who were officers.
My duty station and unit were identified, along with my address and telephone number. My family received about a dozen harassing calls with threats on their lives. One threat from the "anti-war" Leftist scum, was that they were going to burn the house down, in the early hours of the morning ... they wouldn't know when.
Nothing has changed. Some radical "Progressive" released the information, and hoping for a kidnapping and beheading by Islamic, human sacrificing cavemen -- tools of Leftist "Progressive" ends-justify-the-means tactics. "That will show the rightwingers about starting a war; unless a Democrat starts it!"
Or, if they do change this soldier's assignment, they can have their cake, too, and call him a coward, and that the family is showing how they can influence government in favoritism and nepotism.
Depend on the lies to flow freely and that the yellow-dogs-of-democracy will have it out of both sides of their collective mouth ... and Rogers will echo it by rote ...
A friend in Alaska told me that there are rumors going around about Track. Seems he got busted for vandalism and was given the option of jail or military. Hard to confirm from down here.
See? No matter what, the "Progressives" will support any rumor, any lie to defame and revile even a family member of the opposing party.
That teaches "Progressive" children the real meaning of party politics ... defame and revile the children, to get votes for the adult goosestepping, verbal baton wielding Brownshirts of the "Progressive" march to socialism.
Basic humanity and kindness to the children of Republicans is uneccessary as an example to future "Progressives". The fledgling Democrats will learn to hate and lie, muckrake and connive. The lesson will be that no matter what, the ends-justify-the-means, and anything is okay ... just so you don't get caught.
You leftists are such lovely examples of human beings ... know that?
I got busted for minor in possesion of alcohol and fighting when I was 18, I had the option of going into the military or getting probation. I had already signed up for the Air Force before the incident and I told the Air Force what had happened. They took away my choice of duty station because of it, so I went Army to make sure I got to go to Germany.
Saved my life and gave me direction. I would have gone military anyways, I was already 1/2 throught the process with the Air Force when I got in trouble.
What is your point Gromanski? That the Palins are an 'average' (great) american family?
Thank god for that.
If you are trying to insult a young man that has voluntered for service in the military during wartime, then you are worthless, subhuman, piece of garbage and you better pray you don't open your stupid ass yapper to the wrong person. Or you'll get your ass handed to you right quick.
The Drudge Report run rumors that Bill Clinton had fathered a black child? Did TADOWE come out against the Right when they were spreading false rumors?
"The Drudge Report run rumors that Bill Clinton had fathered a black child? Did TADOWE come out against the Right when they were spreading false rumors?"
Is this a rumor about McCain? Is this about Obama?
No, this is about a family member of a vice presidential candidate ... one who the Leftist, Progressive human trash of the Democratic party try to defame and dehumanize as their neo-Juden target. An ugly example that Democrats can use to beat-up and attack as a mob ...
Did they do a DNA test? How about Edwards? Would you like to know?
Then get your ignorant, dehumanizing, ends-justify-the-meand head out of your sandy nether regions!
You all are walking and talking examples of hypocrisy, and are always waving your partisan hands to change the subject ... in every single example of where you get caught making slimey verminous creeps out of yourselves.
I wouldn't doubt that Bill Clinton fathered many bastards, the creep!
So what's your point -- that I didn't call Clinton a slimey verminous creep, at the time?
Tell it to Hillary ...
okay got it - rumors about Democrats are okay, rumors about Republicans arenot.
Sarah Palin herself told everyone what day her son is being deployed, which is also in violation of the law. She is as reckless as the top of her ticket.
Someone told me that "they" weren't sociopaths. Well, it is obvious, here, that they have no concept of right and wrong, and that's exactly the ends-justify-the-means lesson that has been taught by Democrats, since the end of Vietnam. They will obviously continue to prove they ingrained hypocrisy by calling for decent campaigning, while they feed their stooges (guess where?) the dirt the dupes will read and foam at the mouth over.
Here they are, Rogers, providing the example I reason them to be; near moronic hatemongers who label themselves "Progressive".
Gather the remnants of the anti-carpetbagger South around you, and continue the collective urge for the victory of a perfectly healthy state! In German, that would translate, "Sieg Heil".
That's what these baton wielding goosesteppers represent ...
Sarah Palin herself told everyone what day her son is being deployed, which is also in violation of the law. She is as reckless as the top of her ticket.
Beau Biden was asked, after his introduction of his father at the Democratic National Convention, about his deployment -- which he hadn't mentioned in his speech. He completely dodged the question and told the interviewer nothing about it.
Sarah Palin revealing her son's date of deployment, though minor, was dumb. One more sign among many that she's in completely over her head.
okay, TADLOWE got it - rumors about Democrats are okay, rumors about Republicans aren't.
"One more sign among many that she's in completely over her head."
Wait!?! You said, "... the military should adjust its plans accordingly."
Her comments were already public knowledge, and because I'm sure that his orders, available for public scrutiny in general, had his name, rank, unit and assignment details. That's the nature of the beast, Rogers, and those who have been in the service know this, from whatever their party or political persuasion.
Proud American families have their son or daughter's pictures placed in local newspapers; even the largest cities; and which has the same information about unit, rank, assignment, etc., and very noticeably without it being a Goebbelsesque attempt to revile and dehumanize those families for votes.
However, the Leftist Progressives are such types to attack displays of patriotism, and they haven't met a political opponent, or their family, that they couldn't destroy the reputation(s) of with some convenient Big Lie they produce ... as is their collective right ...
Meanwhile, no one better mention any family member of Obama's ... or you'll get a hobnailed boot adjective up your neo-Juden crapper, or maybe a verbal baton, instead.
I seeme to remember the Right + talk show hosts calling Chelsea CLinton "ugly" all the time. But that's okay, becuase she was the daughtor of Democrats!!! Yay!!!!
I hated Rush because of that comment. Some people actually do apply the same standard to both sides of the isle.
"I hated Rush because of that comment. Some people actually do apply the same standard to both sides of the isle."
See, Rex? You are one of the brainwashed and you say it yourself, in your self-serving brag.
What real-life comparison is there between two jokes by Limbaugh, and the effort to dehumanize Palin through her children? Is spreading rumors about Palin's daughter the same as saying showing Chelsea's picture when mentioning her "Whitehouse dog"? Once?
Is making a joke, once, about one of Chelsea's class assignments the same as spreading the rumor that Palin's child is a felon, and spreading it constantly as "truth" for votes?
You haven't anything to be arrogant about, Rex! You are just the flip-side of the dense, partisan zealotry coin. When it is political, you can't think outside of the black-and-white hyperbole of partisanship. Only that collective character fault equates a joke to dehumanization ... and you are a Republican one ...
No Tad, I have lots to be arrogant about.
Thanks though!
And much to humble about.....Tad, you are missings humanity, that is why you will never be a major player. You can always turn down a radio playing one note.
I'm the best because I'm a 5 tool player; you languish in the minors with your 100 mph fastball and lack of a curve.
I can teach you Tad. You just have to accept the schooling.
You all need to learn English grammar.
"You all need to learn English grammar."
You-all, or y'all is a
Palin's son wouldn't have joined the army to avoid criminal prosecution....naw, couldn't be
"Palin's son wouldn't have joined the army to avoid criminal prosecution....naw, couldn't be"
I'm always amazed at the number of callow individuals making up the collective of Progressives. The lack of detail is what attracts their simplistic attentions.
If anyone is old enough to be pardoned into the services, then the court records are available to the public. Since none has been released, then the probability of Track having a felony conviction is vanishingly small.
There is hope for all of you muckraking, backstabbing, whining little socialists, though! The muckrakers may not be searching public court records in the right geographical area?
NAH! What am I thinking? If Track had a record in ANY location, some Leftist 'public servant' would have already released it to the media, and it would be on all the communist sites!
Sigh ... if you haven't seen the court records already, then they almost certainly don't exist ...
Doesn't matter that it isn't true, however, since you Leftist lying anti-patriotic, lose a war for votes, creeps will dehumanize and revile a fellow human being for your party uber alles votes, regardless. SS Trooper wannabes marching and shouting your slogans:
"Progress Change!"
"Palin-Pig! McCain-Stinking Dead Fish"
"Leave Iraq to Terrorism!"
"Liars of the Left Unite!"
My Son is in Track's brigade. The information posted is wrong. Sarah Palin gave out no info. His STRYKER brigade actually left on a different date. It was wonderful that she spoke at their deployment ceremony. She spoke as a mother. Not all of us could be there. I'm in Laguna Beach California....he's in Fairbanks Alaska. I trust that "mis information" will be leaked out and our guys and gals will be kept as safe as possible. Save some of this degative energy for prayer and support. Our families are making extreeme sacrifices.
Tadowe. The rapethepublicans made fun of Chelsea many times, but that's Ok with you because your side did it. Or how about the lie that your side spreads, that Obama is muslim?
Even though it's been proven false, many rapethepublicans claim Obama is a muslim. So let's get honest. Most of those who do so are bigots. They call Obama a muslim, because they can't get away with calling him a nigger.
There. I said it. Many well be shocked at my use of the word, so I want you to be just as upset when the bigots call Obama a muslim. I see nothing wrong with being a muslim. But the bigots have turned it into a slur, a replacement for what they dare not call him.
As far as Iraq, if we'd listened to people like Obams, we wouldn't be there. Of course, your type probably thinks invading Iraq was genius. Even though Afghanistan is going down the tubes, and Pakistan is becoming destabilized. All because we didn't keep our eye on the ball, and invaded Iraq.
Obama never called Palin a pig. He used a common expression. An expression McBush has used himself.
Also.
Tell us Tad, do you still think Nam was a righteous war?
Near hysterical raperepublican bashing deleted for brevity (not to worry, Alan, and since Rogers only removes rants against liberals)
Alan finishes off, "Tell us Tad, do you still think Nam was a righteous war?"
I'm not really sure what you mean, Alan? Would you please define what you mean by "righteous"?
I know that South Vietnam was a member of SEATO, and that most of the world had pledged to defend members against imperialistic aggression. The organization had just seen the results of such imperialism in its new clothing called "fascism". They were afraid that another socialist ideology would attempt similar aggression and subversions.
Kennedy spoke many times about the need to protect South Vietnam and mentioning the atrocities being done by the communists from the North and the Viet Cong terrorists they supplied, also. He dramatically increased advisors in the South, and created an entire new type of military (Army Special Forces) to address the need to fight against insurgency.
When Kennedy was assassinated, Johnson undertook to increase forces even further which continued until he left office in '68.
I think defending democracy and freedom against imperialistic invasion is just and honorable. Do you think it is not?
Tadowe. The rapethepublicans made fun of Chelsea many times, but that's Ok with you because your side did it. Or how about the lie that your side spreads, that Obama is muslim?
Even though it's been proven false, many rapethepublicans claim Obama is a muslim. So let's get honest. Most of those who do so are bigots. They call Obama a muslim, because they can't get away with calling him a nigger.
There. I said it. Many well be shocked at my use of the word, so I want you to be just as upset when the bigots call Obama a muslim. I see nothing wrong with being a muslim. But the bigots have turned it into a slur, a replacement for what they dare not call him.
As far as Iraq, if we'd listened to people like Obams, we wouldn't be there. Of course, your type probably thinks invading Iraq was genius. Even though Afghanistan is going down the tubes, and Pakistan is becoming destabilized. All because we didn't keep our eye on the ball, and invaded Iraq.
Obama never called Palin a pig. He used a common expression. An expression McBush has used himself.
Also.
Tell us Tad, do you still think Nam was a righteous war?
Near hysterical raperepublican bashing deleted for brevity ...
Alan finishes off, "Tell us Tad, do you still think Nam was a righteous war?"
I'm not really sure what you mean, Alan? Would you please define what you mean by "righteous"?
I know that South Vietnam was a member of SEATO, and that most of the world had pledged to defend members against imperialistic aggression. The organization had just seen the results of such imperialism in its new clothing called "fascism". They were afraid that another socialist ideology would attempt similar aggression and subversions.
Kennedy spoke many times about the need to protect South Vietnam and mentioning the atrocities being done by the communists from the North and the Viet Cong terrorists they supplied, also. He dramatically increased advisors in the South, and created an entire new type of military (Army Special Forces) to address the need to fight against insurgency.
When Kennedy was assassinated, Johnson undertook to increase forces even further which continued until he left office in '68.
I think defending democracy and freedom against imperialistic invasion is just and honorable. Do you think it is not?
Tadowe. " I think defending democracy and freedom against imperialistic invasion is just and honorable. Do you think it is not?"
I agree with you. But let's not forget that France invaded Vietnam in the mid 1800s. They were imperialists also. I think our problem was, that this time, the imperialists were communists.
It's my belief that we never should have entered the war. We could never have won without destroying the country (which we almost did). The communist won, and the world's no worse off for it. The main thing is, the suffering of the people has been reduced, and in the end, that's all that matters.
I've studied the history of Vietnam quite a bit. If our government had done it's homework, they would not have invaded. The same is true of Iraq. We invaded without doing our homework. We should have concentrated on Afghanistan. We could have transformed the country, and it would have opened door for us throughout the muslim world. Instead, most of them slammed shut when we invaded Iraq.
Now we could be facing a fate in Pakistan, similar to what befell Cambodia. We are screwing things up again.
By the way. I protested the Vietnam war. Never spit on or cursed a soldier. I wasn't mad at them. I was mad at my government. Every time I see the wall, I think back to those days, and feel a bit of pride. For those who died, for those who served. But I also feel pride in the belief that my efforts, and those of others like me, kept the wall from being twice it's size. A soldier's life is a sacred trust. It should never be squandered. It should never be thrown away. As a Commander in Chief, it should break your heart to send troops into harms way. It should be a last resort, a necessity. Not a war of choice!
Also, I apologize for multiple posts of the same thing. I kept getting error alerts, so I reposted.
"... But let's not forget that France invaded Vietnam in the mid 1800s. They were imperialists also. I think our problem was, that this time, the imperialists were communists."
Non-sequitur. You attempt to conflate economic hegemony with armed, terrorist invasion. What kind of logic is that?
"It's my belief that we never should have entered the war."
Really? Your judgement is far and away better than all the experts of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations!?! You are smarter than all the Democrats in power during the '60s, huh? BTW, where were you?
"We could never have won without destroying the country ..."
This is junk propaganda - defeatism which served the cause of the communist, terrorist aggressor in South Vietnam. Spreading such lies aided and abetted the communists. Indeed, it was the whining of the Leftist agitated mobs which forced timid Democrats into trying to fight a "LIMITED" war. We defeated ourselves by handicapping our military (even so winning *every* battle fought) and aiding the cause of the enemy here, at home by the rioting mobs.
"The communist won, and the world's no worse off for it."
What a fatuous, ignorant reply! Millions died in Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos, and the communists continue to practice aggression against their neighbors. It was as a direct result of the Democrat congress, ruled by the mob, who withdrew ALL support from South Vietnam, and INVITED the communists to seek revenge on all of SEA. It is bald-faced lies like this one; self-justifying tripe; that denigrates Liberals more than any verbal attack could ever do.
Since it is a matter of faith and "belief" with you, I'm sure you will find that easy enough to ignore, as you ignore all the reality of the time. However, if you have an iota of intellectual courage ... explain why the death of millions in the communist takeover, after we abandoned our SEATO/UN ally is being "no worse off for it."
"I've studied the history of Vietnam quite a bit. If our government had done it's homework, they would not have invaded."
WE DID NOT INVADE! Your studies are lies if you believe that. However, you like to pretend to be some sort of elitist that thinks their "homework" can out perform the entire Kennedy and Johnson administrations in "study". That's a bit pompous, isn't it?
"The same is true of Iraq. We invaded without doing our homework."
You really don't have a clue, do you? You actually believe that the entire resources of the US government were ignored before deposing Saddam Hussein, that murderous rapist and genocide plotter? I'm nominating you for the Tender and Callow Fellow award, also. However, you make a fine yellow-dog-democrat!
"We should have concentrated on Afghanistan."
I know it will slip right past your attention, but an insurgency was beginning in Afghanistan, prior to our invasion of Iraq. Once the deposition of Saddam was successful, the insurgency in Afghanistan ended. Only now, after almost 4 years, is the insurgency there rekindling ... it has been defeated in Iraq, and now seeks to try Afghanistan, again. They will fail, and no matter how much the Democrats want them to succeed, in order to blame Bush and Republicans, for votes.
Notice that? That Democrats are excited about blaming the resurgence of terrorism in Afghanistan on Bush, while they ignore that it is the terrorists themselves doing the dirty? You are actually HAPPY, as a collective, so you can whine and moan for votes!
How very "patriotic" you all happen not to be ... it's for votes for the collective and not a win for the USA, you want ...
" We could have transformed the country,..."
Already done! Are you actually for real? Afghanistan has a democratically elected government and where women have the vote! The terrorists are in the hills, providing the collective with the heroin they need to face the evil capitalists!
"By the way. I protested the Vietnam war. Never spit on or cursed a soldier."
Your presence was all the spittle you needed! You just figuratively spit on soldiers - those baby killers, those war criminals, those evil, fascist, nazi, murderers.
"I wasn't mad at them. I was mad at my government."
You refused to allow the United States to protect a sworn ally. You are like Sooners - to hell with the Indians treaties, we need land! For fear and greed, the mob forced the USA to abandon a SEATO/UN ally to true fascism: socialist armed aggression.
The protests were sponsored, in large part, by the USSR. You were a surrogate as a protestor, assisting North Vietnam to terrorize and invade a SEATO/UN member.
"Every time I see the wall, I think back to those days, and feel a bit of pride."
Chalushisdick! You actually assisted the enemy who killed them in their communist/socialist/fascist aggression! Ech hob dir in drerd.
Tadowe. Wow! You really believe that crap don't you. It's obvious from your comments that you're as ignorant as they come. "KILL A GOOK FOR JESUS RAH RAH RAH USA USA USA!!!!!!!!"
You have this simple minded, black and white view of the world.
Your type never learns." If'n we'd been allowed ta kill more gooks, we could a won! USA USA USA!!!"
I'd laugh if you weren't so pathetic.
Alan runs away, "It's obvious from your comments that you're as ignorant as they come."
Wow, yourself! You can try to hide your intellectual timidity from the casual reader, but you aren't fooling me, or most anyone else who isn't partisanly blinded. You had plenty of 'comments' to list and show up as wrong, incorrect, or the 'ignorance' you claim it to be. Too bad you are a bit too scared to chance that.
"You have this simple minded, black and white view of the world.
Your type never learns."
Well, if you were the chochem you pretend to be, you could have informed me, here! However, you just don't have the courage to try ... or alternatively, you're the one that is black-and-white and simple minded, but project your faults onto others with excellence!
"I'd laugh if you weren't so pathetic."
I'd be overjoyed to find a Liberal with menshlechykayt
... too bad they are as rare as unicorns ...
Tadowe "I'd be overjoyed to find a Liberal with menshlechykayt
... too bad they are as rare as unicorns ..."
I be overjoyed to find a Rapethepublican that wasn't a putz!
Too bad they're a rare as a thought in W's brain!
Because of the 1954 Accords settling the First Indochina War, South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos were not SEATO members.
The United States sought, but failed, to make the Vietnam War into a SEATO collective defense problem.
You go on about the millions that died in Cambodia, but you won't admit it was our fault. If we hadn't brought the war to Cambodia, and driven the people into the waiting arms of Pol Pot, it wouldn't have happened (at that time). Most likely the Cambodian government would have eventually fallen due to corruption and civil unrest. As to weather it would have been at the hands of the Khmer Rouge, or Vietnam is debatable.
It's estimated that two million Vietnamese died during the war plus two million Cambodian deaths. That's four million that died because of the war (Not counting invader casualties).
Which is worse. Millions during the war, or millions after the war. They're both horrible.
As far as having the courage to inform you. Why should I. You're not interested in being informed. If this were a face to face meeting, I'd be the one speaking in a calm voice, and you'd be the one all red faced, eyes bulging, and screaming. Hell you'd probably want to fight me. You're not interested in a dialogue. You just want a forum to spout you anti liberal, anti Democrat crap. Then you go off on anyone that disagrees with you. Educate yourself. It's not my job.
Alan drops hysterical ranting and says, "Because of the 1954 Accords settling the First Indochina War, South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos were not SEATO members.
You beg the question of Vietnam not being a "member" of SEATO. North and South Korea, along with North and South Vietnam were 'entities' (is that better) created by SEATO/UN and under treatied protection of those nations; whether the aggession was from either direction.
A war was fought to protect S. Korea, fought patriotically for democracy and freedom ... while you knowingly misrepresent (read: lie) about the pertinent facts with your quibbles about S. Vietnam's war.
"The United States sought, but failed, to make the Vietnam War into a SEATO collective defense problem."
What respect do you think you earn with this sort of blatant lie? You mock and lie about history in your partisan zeal ... unbelievable!
Your ilk DEMANDS that the UN be the protector, but not actually go to war! When Australia, New Zealand, S. Korea and Thailand joined in fighting communist aggression ... they failed to make the Vietnam war a SEATO problem? What SEATO/UN nations did NOT agree to support a SEATO protectorate?
"You go on about the millions that died in Cambodia, but you won't admit it was our fault."
Actually, it was the fault of North Vietnam and the communist tyrant Ho Chi Minh who was at fault for the war. You marched to support Ho Chi Minh's invasion, but now whine about Iraq and deposing a vicious, genocidal madman ...
Words fail me in describing how low I think your ilk go ... Rogers has a governor on the size of the type I can use to emphasize what a pack of puling, anti-patriotic, communist supporting creeps you liars just happen to be.
Vietnam was a fight to defend a fledgling SEA democracy against communist imperialsim that your marching supported. I was literally spat at, and had garbage thrown at my car, in '69, when attending the Defense Language Institute, Monterey, California. Are you positive you weren't part of that spitting crowd of communist supporting haters?
Where did you march, hero?
TADOWE "Vietnam was a fight to defend a fledgling SEA democracy against communist imperialsim"
Diem's appointment came after the French had been defeated at the Battle of Dien Bien Phu and were ready to withdraw from Indochina. At the start of 1955, French Indochina was dissolved, leaving Diem in temporary control of the south. A referendum was scheduled for October 23, 1955 to determine the future direction of the south. It was contested by Bo i, the Emperor, advocating the restoration of the monarchy, while Diem ran on a republican platform. The elections were held, with Diem's brother and confidant Ng nh Nhu, the leader of the family's Can Lao Party, which supplied Diem's electoral base, organising and supervising the elections. Campaigning for Bo i was prohibited, and the result was rigged, with Bo i supporters attacked by Nhu's workers. Diem recorded 98.2% of the vote, including 605,025 votes in Saigon, where only 450,000 voters were registered. Diem's tally also exceeded the registration numbers in other districts. Three days later, Diem proclaimed the formation of the Republic of Vietnam, naming himself President.
After coming under pressure from within the country and the United States, Diem agreed to hold elections in August 1959 to form a national legislature. Newspapers were not allowed to publish names of independent candidates or their policies, and political meetings exceeding five people were prohibited. Candidates were disqualified for petty reasons such as acts of vandalism against campaign posters. In the rural areas, candidates who ran were threatened using charges of conspiracy with the Vietcong, which carried the death penalty. Phan Quang Dan, the government's most prominent critic, was allowed to run. Despite the deployment of 8,000 ARVN plainclothes troops into his district to vote, Dan still won with a 61 ratio. The busing of soldiers occurred across the country, and when the new assembly convened, Dan was arrested.
Rule
Diem was also passionately anti-Communist. Tortures and killings of "communist suspects" were committed on a daily basis. The death toll was put at around 50,000 with 75,000 imprisonments, and Diem's effort extended beyond communists to anti-communist dissidents and anti-corruption whistleblowers
Some democracy
Tadowe is a veteran like Rex is a global financier.
Puh-lease.
Alan says, "... Some democracy"
I'm not quite sure of what your point happens to be? Are you saying that only 'real', independent democracies capable of self-defense are worthy of being defended by SEATO/UN? That the SEATO/UN protectorate be abandoned to terrorism and their freedom relinguished to communist, fascistic aggression for the faults of one man, or clique?
Wouldn't it have been soon enough to save them from the communist genocide, then try and apply some moral sense to their government? Besides, in consideration of the corruption which goes on uninvestigated about Democrats? What moral right does Feinstein have for providing her husband's companies with inside bidding information? How about Reid's real estate payoffs? How about Jefferson's caught-on-tape acceptance of payoffs for his vote in the Senate?
No, we certainly had to save them from genocide and tyrannical government from outside aggression, then take the corruption (Monsanto, Dow, Standard Oil, et al) our of our own bureaucratic 'eye' before we 'fixed' their government.
However, you marched to help Ho Chi Minh and I served to fight communist, Ho Chi Minh directed war of terrorism against SEATO/UN protectorate ...
... and, I've been the reviled fascist, nazi, murderous baby killer, and you're the hero that saved the USA's welfare bucks ... I desperately need your mockery and dehumanization and your continued efforts to support Democrat wars: Bosnia/Serbia, Iraq, Somalia, and the Haiti invasion, while you try and literally defeat any war being done for freedom if a Republican is the commander in chief.
War mongers to hide blowjobs, using genocide as an excuse, but subverive partisans against actually deposing a genocidal tyrant ...
Come on back and continue to fail to answer the few simple (for you, buddy) questions I've presented to you. Your intellectual poltroonery is showing, Alan.
Diem and religious freedom
In a country where surveys of the religious composition estimated the Buddhist majority to be between 70 and 90 percent, Diem's policies generated claims of religious bias. As a member of the Catholic Vietnamese minority, he is widely regarded by historians as having pursued pro-Catholic policies that antagonized many Buddhists. Specifically, the government was regarded as being biased towards Catholics in public service and military promotions, as well as the allocation of land, business favors and tax concessions. Diem also once told a high-ranking officer, forgetting that he was a Buddhist, "Put your Catholic officers in sensitive places. They can be trusted." Many officers in the Army of the Republic of Vietnam converted to Catholicism in the belief that their military prospects depended on it. Additionally, the distribution of firearms to village self-defense militias intended to repel Vietcong guerrillas saw weapons only given to Catholics, with Buddhists in the army being denied promotion if they refused to convert to Catholicism. Some Catholic priests ran their own private armies, and in some areas forced conversions, looting, shelling and demolition of pagodas occurred. Some Buddhist villages converted en masse in order to receive aid or avoid being forcibly resettled by Diem's regime. The Catholic Church was the largest landowner in the country, and the "private" status that was imposed on Buddhism by the French, which required official permission to conduct public Buddhist activities, was not repealed by Diem. The land owned by the Catholic Church was exempt from land reform. Catholics were also de facto exempt from the corve labor that the government obliged all citizens to perform; U.S. aid was disproportionately distributed to Catholic majority villages. Under Diem, the Catholic church enjoyed special exemptions in property acquisition, and in 1959, Diem dedicated his country to the Virgin Mary.
The white and gold Vatican flag was regularly flown at all major public events in South Vietnam. U.S. Aid supplies tended to go to Catholics, and the newly constructed Hue and Dalat universities were placed under Catholic authority to foster a Catholic-skewed academic environment.
The regime's relations with the U.S. worsened during 1963, as well as heightening discontent among South Vietnam's Buddhist majority.
In May, in the central city of Hu, where Diem's elder brother was the archbishop, Buddhists were prohibited from displaying Buddhist flags during Vesak celebrations commemorating the birth of Gautama Buddha when the government cited a regulation prohibiting the display of non-government flags.. A few days later, Catholics were allowed to fly religious flags at another celebration where the regulation was not enforced. This led to a protest lead by Thich Tri Quang against the government, which was suppressed by Diem's forces, killing nine unarmed civilians. Diem and his supporters blamed the Vietcong for the deaths and claimed that the protesters were responsible for the violence. Although the provincial chief expressed sorrow for the killings and offered to compensate the victims' families, they resolutely denied that government forces were responsible for the killings and blamed the Vietcong.
The Buddhists pushed for a five point agreement: freedom to fly religious flags, an end to arbitrary arrests, compensation for the Hue victims, punishment for the officials responsible and religious equality. Diem labeled the Buddhists as "damn fools" for demanding something that, according to him, they already enjoyed.
Diem banned demonstrations, and ordered his forces to arrest those who engaged in civil disobedience. On June 3, 1500 protesters attempted to march towards Tu Dam Pagoda. Six waves of ARVN tear gas and attack dogs failed to disperse the crowds, and finally brownish-red liquid chemicals were doused on praying protesters, resulting in 67 being hospitalised for chemical injuries. A curfew was subsequently enacted.
The turning point came in June when a Buddhist monk, Thch Qung c, set himself on fire in the middle of a busy Saigon intersection in protest of Diem's policies; photos of this event were disseminated around the world, and for many people these pictures came to represent the failure of Diem's government. A number of other monks publicly self-immolated, and the U.S. grew increasingly frustrated with the unpopular leader's public image in both Vietnam and the United States. Diem used his conventional anti-communist argument, identifying the dissenters as communists.
As demonstrations against his government continued throughout the summer, the special forces loyal to Diem's brother Nhu conducted an August raid of the Xa Loi Pagoda in Saigon. The Pagodas were vandalised, monks beaten, the cremated remains of Thch Qung c, which included a heart which did not disintegrate, were confiscated. Simultaneous raids were carried out across the country, with the Tu Dam Pagoda in Hue being looted, the statue of Gautama Buddha demolished and a body of a deceased monk confiscated. When the populace came to the defense of the monks, the resulting clashes saw 30 civilians killed and 200 wounded. In all 1400 monks were arrested, and some thirty were injured across the country. The U.S. indicated their disapproval of Diem's administration when their ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge visited the Pagoda ex post facto. No further mass Buddhist protests occurred during the remainder of Diem's rule.
During this time, Madame Nhu, who was the de facto first lady due to Diem's bachelor life, inflamed the situation by mockingly applauding the suicides, referring to them as "barbecues" while Nhu stated "If the Buddhists want to have another barbecue, I will be glad to supply the gasoline."
The pagoda raids stoked widespread public disquiet in the previously apolitical Saigon public. Students at Saigon University boycotted classes and rioted, which led to arrests, imprisonments and the closure of the university; this was repeated at Hue's University. When high school students demonstrated, Diem arrested them as well; over 1,000 students from Saigon's leading high school, most of them children of Saigon public servants, were sent to re-education camps. Children as young as five were also sent to these camps on charges of anti-government graffiti.
Diem's foreign minister Vu Van Mau resigned, shaving his head like a Buddhist monk in protest. When he attempted to leave the country on a religious pilgrimage, Diem had him jailed.
Alan repeats personal attacks against a dead-man, by the time the USA was sent to war, there.
Some even think that the CIA, who had botched the banishment of Diem and allowed his murder to take place in revenge for being Buddhists and not Catholics, might have had a part in Kennedy's assassination!
However, neither that or the whining about Diem, were pertinent to any deep consideration, when the defense of millions of South Vietnamese citizens who did not want communism, and especially not Mao out-the-barrel-of-an-AK47 type 'leadership' was a SEATO/UN responsibility. Kennedy was not dissuaded from his committment to the defense of South Vietnam and continued his efforts to provide that; despite the horror he felt at being responsible for Diem's death in the CIA coup.
Your quibbles resemble nothing so much as voluminous spam ... I'm still a fascist, nazi, murderous baby killer and you're the hero that helped the communists win in South Vietnam.
Much as you seem to want to lose in Iraq, with Democrats calling our Marines 'murderers' and trying to smear all soldiers as being somehow incompetent in 'real' life ...
Who is it then, that resembles the supporters of those trying to end Iraqi democracy ... marching on the internet streets ... wielding their verbal batons against old-soldiers, mocking their service and quibbling about helping the enemy that built the Wall ... calling our soldiers torturers and stacking their bodies up like ghouls in support of defeat and withdrawel in Iraq ...
Come on back and tell me how much you know and how heroic you were in helping defeat the USA, then, please.
TADOWE"Alan repeats personal attacks against a dead-man, by the time the USA was sent to war, there."
While it's true we didn't invade Vietnam until after his death, we were supporting him. We became involved very early on.
In fact the first military advisors were sent beginning in 1950
In July 1955, Dim announced in a broadcast that South Vietnam would not participate in the elections specified in the Geneva accords. As Saigon's delegation did not sign the Geneva accords, it was not bound by it, Dim said. He also claimed the communist government in the North created conditions that made a fair election impossible in that region.
Diem was turning out to be an embarrassment, so.....
During the summer of 1963 U.S. officials began discussing the possibility of a regime change. The United States Department of State was generally in favor of encouraging a coup. The Pentagon and CIA were more alert to the destabilizing consequences of such an act and wanted to continue applying pressure for reforms.
Chief among the proposed changes was the removal of Diem's younger brother Ngo Dinh Nhu. Nhu controlled the secret police and was seen as the man behind the Buddhist repression. As Diem's most powerful adviser, Nhu had become a hated figure in South Vietnam. His continued influence was unacceptable to the Kennedy administration. Eventually, the administration concluded that Diem was unwilling to change.
The CIA was in contact with generals planning to remove Diem. They were told that the United States would support such a move. President Diem was overthrown and executed, along with his brother, on November 2, 1963. When he was informed, Maxwell Taylor remembered that Kennedy "rushed from the room with a look of shock and dismay on his face." He had not approved Diem's murder. The U.S. ambassador to South Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge, invited the coup leaders to the embassy and congratulated them. Ambassador Lodge informed Kennedy that "the prospects now are for a shorter war".
Following the coup, chaos ensued. Hanoi took advantage of the situation and increased its support for the guerrillas. South Vietnam entered a period of extreme political instability, as one military government toppled another in quick succession. Increasingly, each new regime was viewed as a puppet of the Americans; whatever the failings of Diem, his credentials as a nationalist (as Robert McNamara later reflected) had been impeccable. WOOPS!!!!!
*Rather than laboriously searching through my printed references, I am finding information online, that agree with what I know, and then posting it here (along with my own comments). In addition to being a low life liberal, I wouldn't want to be called out as a plagiarizer.
Alan says, "*Rather than laboriously searching through my printed references, I am finding information online, that agree with what I know, and then posting it here ..."
You are a cut-and-paste spammer. Nothing you've posted has anything to do with the reality of the situation: I am a Vietnam veteran baby killing, fascist, nazi murderer, while you are the hero of the war by marching to assist the communists in their communist, imperialistic victory.
First, you have your cake by blaming the French for being the 'real' evil aggressors in Vietnam - which has zip to do with my thoughts as to whether "Vietnam was a righteous war". I answered and asked you a question in return. In fact, I've asked you several such questions, but which you are too intellectually timid to answer.
Then you eat your cake by blaming the war on Diem's corruption - like some iconic Ugly American, moralist jerk.
Continuing to munch away, you now post more tripe about an anti-French nationalist and belittle his patriotism and efforts to conservatively avoid revolution and support independence from French AND communist invasion.
All of it, an attempt to turn me into someone who is the true evil by fighting for the defense of South Vietnam, while you are the hero of the victory of subversion successfully allowing the communists to win, when the Democrats withdrew all support from our SEATO/UN ally.
You helped the communists to perform selective genocide on those who thought democracy and freedom were better than a socialist tyranny.
Congratulations, hero ... and all you heroes who helped defeat the USA in South Vietnam, and now cry crocadile tears every time you see the Wall and those killed by the communist aggressors you chanted for, I can hear you and the mob now:
"Hey, Hey LBJ, How Many Kids Have You Killed Today?"
"Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh! The NLF Is Going To Win!"
The communists you supported killed the 'kids' on the Wall with your ilk's assistance ... not LBJ.
Now your ilk tries to win for Islamic terrorism in Iraq for votes!
That's why Huxely had it so right for the wrong reasons. It is the greedy cowards, and not nationalism which is used to justify wanton killing -- it is the MISUSE of nationalism as in the communist greed to force a tyranny on ONE NATION by force and against democractic capitalism; however flawed. That's why Aldous' coda is my cut-and-paste agreement about your kind:
The leech's kiss, the squid's embrace,
The prurient ape's defiling touch:
And do you like the human race?
No, not much.
(along with my own comments). In addition to being a low life liberal, I wouldn't want to be called out as a plagiarizer.
TADOWE
Nothing you post has anything to do with reality. You challenged me to inform you, and I've been trying to do that, by starting at the beginning (I teach on my terms, not yours). But no matter what I post, you start with your GI Joe schtick.
If you are a Vet. (which I doubt), go to the VA and get some help. You're definitely loony toons. I've wasted enough time on you. I need to organize some war protests and get out the vote for Obama rallies. Good bye, you pathetic waste of skin.
BTW You have yet to disprove one thing I've said, you stupid putz!
Alan can't help but mock a serviceman, "... Nothing you post has anything to do with reality."
I've just been too hard on you, Alan. It was a trying time, and American cowards became dupes of Soviet sponsorship of protests out of concern that they might actually have to fight for freedom, and for some foreign nation the fearful knew nothing about. How could they defend fellow human beings against aggressive tyranny when all they had to do was run to the mob and chant for the Communists to win the battle; to murder those who fought against them, to attack their neighbors to this day!?!
Just too much for some 18 or 19 year old yellow-belly to face!
"You challenged me to inform you, and I've been trying to do that, by starting at the beginning ... (I teach on my terms, not yours) ..."
You are talking to the crowd, shmuck, and not me. I asked you a specific question, and it wasn't to have some patronizing creep lecture me with jejune cut-and-paste dictations.
"... If you are a Vet. (which I doubt), go to the VA and get some help. You're definitely loony toons. I've wasted enough time on you. I need to organize some war protests and get out the vote for Obama rallies. Good bye, you pathetic waste of skin."
Rank hypocrisy, and since your "war protests" were absent for Bosnia, 2 air wars against Iraq, the assissination in Somalia and the invasion of Haiti ...
Your party consists of subversives who are only interested in the VOTE for their commander-in-chief, and the wars they fight for blowjobs and cover-ups.
When the commander-in-chief is a Republican, Democrats attempt to lose the war by "war protests" and call our soldiers war criminals, murderers and whatever other vile association they can find. They whine and cry about costs in their greed for more and more Welfare and benefits.
Vietnam, and now the Democrats again proving they are anti-patriots for votes scum in Iraq will bring that reality home ... that your ilk ...
Think you are heroes for defeating the USA in Vietnam and if you could lose the war in Iraq, you would call yourselves heroes and patriots, again, like you liars did after Vietnam.
I'm the evil fascist nazi soldier who defended South Vietnam, so naturally I am your enemy and you find it appropriate to mock me and further revile me for noticing that you, the great chanter for the NLF, helped the communists to win in Vietnam.
That's the reality - that you and your ilk assisted the communists to invade, defeat and kill those who fought against them, as well as millions in Cambodia, and with aggressions and terrorism continuing to this day.
Now, you and your ilk are really trying to assist the Islamic terrorists to win in Iraq, and by subverting the successes in Iraq for over 4 years now. Daily efforts to denigrate our Armed Forces, daily attacks against intelligence efforts, concerted efforts to attack the administration through the CIA, ad nauseam.
Your party is becoming the party of treason ... and you're one of the heroes making that possible!
Congratulations, hero, and thanks for your sensitivity about my mental state ... I know now, that a commie dupe, and a terrorist stooge can Progressively feel-my-pain ...
BTW You have yet to disprove one thing I've said, you stupid putz!
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