Police Trapped Thousands in New Orleans
As the situation grew steadily worse in New Orleans last week, you might have wondered why people didn't just leave on foot. The Louisiana Superdome is less than two miles from a bridge that leads over the Mississippi River out of the city.The answer: Any crowd that tried to do so was met by suburban police, some of whom fired guns to disperse the group and seized their water.
Around 500 people stuck in downtown New Orleans after the storm banded together for self-preservation, making sure the oldest and youngest among them were taken care of before looking after their own needs.
Two San Francisco paramedics who were staying in the French Quarter for a convention have written a first-hand account that describes their appalling treatment at the hands of Louisiana police, a story confirmed today by the San Francisco Chronicle, UPI, and St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
When buses charted by the group to escape New Orleans never showed up, they camped out beside a police command center on Canal Street, believing it was the best place to get aid, protection, and information. They were told they could not stay there and should leave the city on foot over Highway 90, which crosses the Mississippi River from New Orleans to the suburb of Gretna, a city of 17,500 people.
Running out of food and water, they walked to the bridge, growing in number to around 800 people as word spread of a safe way out:
As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move.
We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their City.
In an interview with UPI, Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson confirmed that his department shut down the bridge to pedestrians: "If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged."
The increasingly desperate group set up camp on the New Orleans side of the bridge, where they were seen by several media outlets, until they were chased off at gunpoint by Gretna police:
Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.
The paramedics believe that race played a factor in the decision to block evacuees on foot. Gretna's population is 56 percent white and 36 percent black, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.
Comments
What an outrage! That Sheriff ought to resign. How dare anyone prioritize economic assets over human lives and safety.
Anarchy is slowly on the way. There is no money, there is no one to stop it all from happening. Board up your window, take arms and defend your family and close ones.
Resign???
What the Gretna police did was a crime against humanity. When I first read about it I wondered at its veracity - but now it is confirmed - the people of Gretna should be ashamed that they have such heartless, racist leadership.
I don't think anybody should be surprised. This is American racism and classism at work.
This is a lot of things at work. Those officers who made command decisions to block refugees from leaving should lose their shields and be charged with criminal negligence and interfering with a federal operation.
There's no reason to block people from fleeing an evacuation zone. Last I checked, that was actually the whole point of an evacuation.
Ahh.
Must've been a Christian sheriff...
JF
Definition:
Government - the most people with the most guns.
Don't ever (that means EVER) think it's any different in the United States of Rich People.
First: this account was sritten by two San Francisco socialists (look at the link), with a stark political agenda. Other accounts don't have the same dramatic tone, by a long shot.
Lee: you do realize that the criminals who were ruining much of New Orleans didn't stop with property, right? They found a lot of dead bodies in the Superdome. Other accounts of the same story say that people in the crowd were threatening the cops, which is why they fired into the air, and that it wasn't "before we could speak."
"That": "What the Gretna police did was a crime against humanity." You mean the part where he kept a bunch of folks from walking several miles to his small town with limited resources, where they couldn't get any help either?
...and, of course, if the Gretna police had just let a bunch of people come into their city from anarchic New Orleans, and that anarchy had spread, some folks would be posting about the "uncaring" cops who didn't do their jobs in protecting the locals.
One little side note: the two paramedics, being such caring people, wrote about people who were hurt and wounded, but didn't stop to help any of them, nor did anyone else in the crowd they were with (many of whom were also paramedics and doctors attending the same conference).
Nagin is a bullsh*tting, incompetent punk [adjective: Slang: Of poor quality; inferior] whose only qualifications for the job is that he's as corrupt as the rest of the local government.
Blanco is a bullsh*tting, incompetent punkess [adjective: Slang: Of poor quality; inferior] whose only qualifications for the job was the (D) next to her name on the ballot.
I lived in the Gulfport/Biloxi area for four years from 2000-2004. I'm more then familiar with that whole area and New Orleans as well.
New Orleans is a turd bowl reeking of sh*t, piss, vomit and decay. Oh... did I mention this was before the hurricane.
The corruption of New Orleans local government and police force rivals the best (worst??) that Mexico has to offer (I lived on the Mexican border as well for 5 years).
I am all for spending federal funds (our tax dollars) to help in the aftermath, whatever it takes. However, I don't want one thin dime of my taxes going towards any rebuilding of that turd bowl city. Not one dime.
Common sense says don't build below sea level in hurricane prone areas. By the way, don't forget to thank the French for New Orleans (and also thank them for the couple of tents and cots their donating now).
I applaud House Speaker Dennis Hastert for having the gonads to say publicly what I and many others feel about rebuilding that turd bowl city.
It would take many Billions of dollars, possibly 100's of Billions to rebuild. It would surpass the Big Dig in Boston for the amount of corruption, scams, cost overruns, thievery and once again, incompetence.
And after all that waste of money the following week could bring another Cat 4 or Cat 5 hurricane.
I say NO!
Give the Big Easy the Big "Final" Rest.
Racist much?
Well, The primary function of government is to defend its borders. So the police chief was probably thinking he was fullfilling his charter by defending his fellow citizens from an onslaught of refugees. It happens in other countries, why not in america?
Here is a quote from Mayor Nagin in the Times-Picayune that seems to confirm part of the story.
"Nagin's ire began to rise anew as he recalled a foiled strategy to send able-bodied refugees over the Crescent City Connection to the high ground of the West Bank.
"We were taking in people from St. Bernard Parish," he said. "If we had a bottle of water, we shared it. Then when we were going to let people cross the bridge, they were met with frigging dogs and guns at the Gretna parish line. They said, 'We're going to protect Jefferson Parish assets.'
This racist commandant needs to do time.
Oh, good, the moronic brownshirt fucks are here! I like to keep track of just how fucking scared they are of this whole thing...
Cirby and A.Patriot - oh, nevermind, there's no point even talking to heartless cretins like yourselves.
Well, The primary function of government is to defend its borders. So the police chief was probably thinking he was fullfilling his charter by defending his fellow citizens from 500 of his fellow americans. It happens in other countries, why not in america?
What an outrage! That Sheriff ought to resign. How dare anyone prioritize economic assets over human lives and safety.
lee | 2005-09-09 12:27 PM
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under what kinda rock you been hidin' chil', an' fo' how long?'
this is the usa...
here, property ALWAYS trumps life, 'specially if'n it's jus' nigras lives we bees talk'n' 'bout...
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or, you're like 12 years old?
precious naivete, just precious...
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God Bless America...
Nowhere else in the world but here is Government-sponsored racism tolerated.
This whole situation is dispicable. I only wish the Presidential Election was this November instead of last. What I would give to get the incompetent George Bush and his racist cronies out of office. Only three more years of this regime.
JF:
That's the kind of easy crack that is as bigoted as the Klown Kops on the bridge.
There is a vocal bunch of Christo-fascists in ths country (including our hypocrite national so-called leadership) that has hijacked Christianity (the REAL one) and harnessed it in the service mean, narrow-minded hatred. The Christians I know have been sending money, and opening their homes to NOLA refugees. Let's be a little more precise in our name-calling, OK?
BH
The San Francisco Chronicle and UPI stories don't actually confirm the paramedics' story, they simply repeat it. There are various other news stories (such as the one from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch) that confirm parts of the story, but thus far I've seen nothing confirming the entire story. Presumably given the number of people involved more details will eventually come out.
Note that the Gretna cops were equal-opportunity scum: other reports tell of them threatening to shoot European and Japanese tourists trying to escape across that bridge.
I knew this was true the minute local boy "Kevin" posted a defense (NOT a rebuttal) of the action at Libertarian Samizdata yesterday. It amazed me how many people just ignored what "Kevin" said and denied the whole event.
At least now some reporters have managed to track down Chief Lawson and got a confession out of him. That'll be the end of the Ostrich Party, God willing...
Now: convene a grand jury - federal, not local - and get to the bottom of who ordered what and when.
Thanks for spreading the word about this tragic episode--one of many--in what will go down in history as the biggest failure in leadership of an American president.
God forbid America experiences any more "tests of mettle" under this pathetic Administration.
MR. McCLELLAN: The President's most important responsibility is the safety and security of the American people. He talks about that often. That is his most important responsibility.
very nice, patriot. apparently, you know little about the social history of the gulf coast, which, i can assure you, gives new orleans a definite run for its money when it comes to corruption. perhaps you would know more if you left the airbase every once in awhile.
but that's not really what offends you about new orleans. what offends you about new orleans is black people, poor people, and at all levels of society, a culture that respects individuality. that's what bugs you. you think the only people you should have to defend are people just like you. well, sorry, but america is more than that.
what amuses me is that people like you assume people like me care what you think, or should. we don't: we don't care what you think, you don't have to appreciate new orleans; and you are always welcome to take your toys and go elsewhere. go to nebraska; there's lots of nice, christian republican white people there, you'll fit right in.
and do the rest of us americans a favor: stay there.
Read Steinbeck much? Listen to Woody Guthrie or Will Rogers much?
On the one hand people are criticizing N.O. residents for not leaving the area, on the other hand, that same people are sympathizing with the Gretna police as to why they did not let them into their city.
They were under mandatory evacuation orders, yet not allowed to leave. That seems fair.
I hope the racists on this board, and all over the place, find themselves in the same situation some day.
My most important responsibility is the safety and security of the President's approval rating. There is nothing I won't say or do to protect and defend that.
I don't blame those cops. I wouldn't have let those dirty n*ggers into my town either. We knew how to deal with outside agitators back in the day.
Everyone still forgets that Nagin and Blanco had hundreds of buses that could have been used to evacuate thousands of people. They could have done this TWO DAYS before the storm hit. They created a monster and now everyone wants to blame others who were caught up in this. State officials BLOCKED the Red Cross and Salvation Army from helping those at the Superdome and Convention Center. Where is the outcry for this? Those poor souls who tried to cross the bridge would not have needed to do so if BLanco and Nagin had done their jobs!!
On Shepard Smith on Fox News confirmed this story as well - on location:
"They won't let them walk out of there because I'm standing right above that Convention Center, and what they've done is they've locked them in there.
The government said you go here and you'll get help or you go in that Superdome and you'll get help. And they didn't get help.
They got locked in there. And they watched people being killed around them. And they watched people starving. And they watched elderly people not getting any medicine.
And now they know it's happening because we've been telling them. Repeatidly. Over and over every day.
And you know what they're doing now? And I'm not blaming anyone, I'm you telling what's happening.
They've setup a checkpoint at the bottom of this bridge. This is the bridge that takes you from New Orleans over into Gretna. From Orleans Parish, into Jefferson Parish. It's the only way out. It's the connection to the rest of the world. And they've set up a checkpoint and anyone who walks up, out of that city now is turned around.
You are not allowed to go to Gretna Louisiana, from New Orleans Louisiana.
Over there is hope. Over there is electricity. Over there is food and water. But you cannot go from there to there. The government will not allow you to do it."
the story may have been merely repeated by the san francisso chronicle and upi, but it was also corroborated first hand by fox news of all sources.
chep smith saw cops turn people away and geraldo rivera pleaded desperately to camera that the people in the Superdome be allowed to walk out of new orleans. things have come to a pretty pass when smith and rivera are the voice of reason...
As someone who has lived in NOLA, I can tell you that many of the 56% in Gretna would prefer it was 100% (and Arthur Lawson is unlikely to be the only Bull Connor candidate there).
While Metarie & Slidell may fear New Orleans, Gretna hates it (probably because it's closest to the heart of black New Orleans).
If it wasn't clear, what I posted was a quote to what Shepard Smith said, and a link to video of it.
Shepard Smith's reporting from New Orleans was nothing less than heroic. I didn't realize he mentioned Gretna on the air when he reported on the checkpoint -- thanks for passing that along, Karl.
First: this account was sritten by two San Francisco socialists (look at the link), with a stark political agenda. Other accounts don't have the same dramatic tone, by a long shot.
They may have an agenda, but I think every first-hand story coming out of New Orleans is colored by outrage, shock, and grief. The press has confirmed the most important aspect of their story -- the refusal of the local police to allow thousands of people to cross over the river to Gretna.
If that route had been available to them, the situation in the Superdome, Convention Center, and downtown New Orleans might not have been such a nightmare.
One thing those paramedics show is that the good people stuck in the city, who greatly outnumbered the criminals, were working together to look out for the young and elderly. If some outside relief entity -- FEMA, state, local, or Red Cross -- had been competent enough to bring in food and water and assure evacuation routes, the descent into total chaos might have been averted.
"There is a vocal bunch of Christo-fascists in ths country..."
Bill, I'll try not to presume to know exactly who you mean by "Christo-fascists", but most people usually include folks like the Southern Baptists, who have been exemplary in disaster response. I'll bet most of those Christo-fascists are doing every bit as much as the "real" Christians you know. Precision is usually the last thing on the mind of those who use labels like Christo-fascist.
HMS- it was the state director of Homeland Security (a Federal Agency) that blocked the Red Cross. Not saying there aint enough blame to go round- but get your facts right.
What I would give to get the incompetent George Bush and his racist cronies out of office.
I'm really not sure how that would affect this apparently utterly despicable action by the Gretna police. For one thing, Gretna Chief of Police Arthur Lawson is a Democrat, as is the sheriff of Jefferson Parish. Of course, there are Democrats and there are Democrats, certainly. I'm still somewhat surprised at the rush to blame the President for every action, no matter who did it.
Another deleterious effect of racism seems to be the election of Gov. Blanco herself. There's a fairly strong body of evidence that racism was decisive in parts of Louisiana for her victory over Rep. Bobby Jindal. There's been a bit of study of the race that points to that disquieting conclusion, particularly the effects of her late campaign ads depicting Rep. Jindal. Her reputation for being "deliberate" has apparently not helped.
Max:
Nope. The Louisiana Department of Homeland Security is a State Agency, not Federal. Here is their webpage. The Red Cross press release specifically refers to the "state Homeland Security Department" requesting that the Red Cross not enter. That's state, not federal.
While there is plenty of blame to go around, the Red Cross didn't enter because the state, which is under Gov. Blanco, requested it. The Gretna and Jefferson Parish police were hardly directed by the President to block the bridge-- and it seems that the people in New Orleans didn't even know about it.
Doesn't this make the Greta sheriff the top candidate to replace Chertof?
Kevin:
"oh, nevermind, there's no point even talking to heartless cretins like yourselves."
You mean the "heartless cretin" who points out that the people were going the *wrong direction* to get out of the city?
They were going *east*, into an area with no supplies or support, 180 degrees away from the only real route out of town at the time (I-10 going west). They were walking from one dry area into another dry area, away from the direction that any rescue or support would come from. If they'd gone into Gretna, they would have been in worse shape and would have had to wait *longer* for rescue.
Let's look at the timeline:
They waited two days after the storm before deciding to leave. That would be Wednesday (the day the Superdome evacuation started). They took up a collection for buses, which were confiscated by the state, and which were supposed to arrive 48 hours later (Friday). They were sent in the wrong direction by some police officer, and went away from the place the of the real evacuations. They had a couple of confrontations with Gretna officers, who were in about the same mental shape as the NOPD at that point.
Some time Saturday, they were found by a rescue team and sent to the airport.
At the same time Saturday, almost all of the people at the Superdome *and* the Convention Center were either evacuated or were being supplied.
In other words, if they'd just stayed in one place and not run off a few miles in the wrong direction, they would have been in better shape.
Oh, and don't forget to blame the victims. They might have stolen bread and water.
I see a Presidential Medal of Freedom in this guy's future.
the greatna police chief has a position waiting for him in washington in the bush administration...no doubt.
Yeah! Because Bush is racist! And...he's racist! And, ummm...Racist!
If I say it over and over, it makes it true, right?
"If some outside relief entity -- FEMA, state, local, or Red Cross -- had been competent enough to bring in food and water and assure evacuation routes, the descent into total chaos might have been averted."
Geez Rogers. I think you're being way too reasonable. You almost make too much sense.
But I wonder... does a city or other local government realistically have the resources to undertake such a massive undertaking?? Does any city have such resources?
I'd say that in the case of a massive disaster... the Federal government is in the best position to take control. That obviously didn't happen for DAYS.
It's funny how those who are accusing others of "finger-pointing" and "playing the blame game." It is not crass to demand accountability from your government... whether it be local, state OR federal... Democrat OR Republican. Especially when tens of thousands of people have perished and a whole city lies in ruin. If now is not the time for accountability, then please, tell me when a good time is. I'll write it down on my calendar.
Um, Cirby, I hate to point this out" since you don't seem to like facts, but I-10 was underwater northwest of the Superdome and largely destroyed as it crossed Lake Pontchartrain.
The Crescent City Connection was the only way out of the city. And to also clear up directions, the bridge was southeast of the Superdome and Convention Center. It was the only way out of the city.
And let me get this straight, now you're blaming the victims for not staying put? Weren't you and your ilk just raving a few days ago because those people hadn't got off their "lazy-asses" and walked to help?
You can't have it both ways.
"...the greatna police chief has a position waiting for him in washington in the bush administration...no doubt"...
maybe he would have in a kerry administration ... see link
Mr. Originality: Yeah, just like repeating "Saddam has WMD" and "Iraq caused 9/11" made it true. The only difference, of course, is that those two statements are demonstrably false, while there is no evidence that "Bush is a racist" is untrue.
Treated like 3rd class steerage passengers on the Titanic.
Great leader, GET OUT QUICK, waer rising! JUST DON'T COME HERE! Where did MY America go? Now is the time to point fingers and shame the NeoCons into the drity class they despize. Did God put me here to tolerate theft of His word? Did God put you here as Judge? Please excuse, i am just so ashamed of some of us.
A Duh,
The guy is a democrat. I know you asshats want to crucify the guy so go right ahead.
These democrat voters got exactly the goverment they wanted and voted for. Its a one party town. This is a classic friendly fire gig. Both the victim and victimizer normaly play for the same team.
Just because the guy's a Democrat doesn't automatically make him one of mine.
That's the disconnect between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats recognize that there are people who aren't really that Democratic (Zell MIller) and call them out on it. Republicans put party above all else. Then again, you're not really a Republican, are you? You're more of a neo-con.
I'll bet those S.F. paramedics and the organizaers if their convention loved the low prices they were able to get in a low-wage city like New Orleans, with so many undereducated people fighting for low-skill service sector jobs. I wish everyone would turn around and look at the man in the mirror. Everyone reading this blog benefits from our nation's approach to poverty, so it's disingenuous to pretend that Bush is the bad guy. We're all a part of the problem, and potentially part of the solution.
Anyway, the biggest "racists" to come to light in the wake of Katrina are the predominantly African-American leaders of New Orleans, followed by the mostly white leaders of LA. Those two groups have consistently failed their constituencies , esp the poor members, for generations, with little or no consequence. The sheriff acted with complete callousness, and I don't support him, but that callousness was probably built up over years of watching N.O. be a murder capital with subpar policing. Whether racism was involved in his decision is almost beside the point. The point is that the sheriff's feelings about N.O. were a legitimate reaction to a long neighboring with a completely dysfunctional city. That dysfunction was the product not primarily of racism, but of the corruption and incompetence of both black and white leaders. New Orleans became synonymous with crime for that sheriff probably not because it was mostly black, but because it actually *is* synonymous with crime, even compared to most American cities.
Why are we even talking to racist scum like Cirby and the -- ha ha -- "A. Patriot" ("A" for "Asshole")? They're bottom-feeders who only want to get a rise out of you.
As for the police chief in Gretna, there's a special place in Hell for him.
R-cade is a communist.
Wow. Cirby, you take the cake. Lot of hate wrapped up in one human package.
Getting taunted on my own weblog by Alex Keaton hurts. I loved that show. I had such a crush on Mallory that I can't even see Jason Bateman on TV without getting a tingle in my special place.
You mean the "heartless cretin" who points out that the people were going the *wrong direction* to get out of the city? ... If they'd gone into Gretna, they would have been in worse shape and would have had to wait *longer* for rescue.
There was no wrong direction out of New Orleans! The place had become Max Max Beyond Superdome.
Gretna was under better control of the authorities and closer to places where buses could pick up evacuees. It did not flood, from the looks of Google Maps. There's no defense for trapping people in a submerged city because you fear they're going to loot your totally evacuated bedroom community. Lives are more important than property.
Shemp:
Funny, I've never said a word about the race of any of the folks involved. Any racism you imagine is in your head, not in my posts.
So (in your tiny little mind) I'm supposed to be racist because I pointed out that the people who wrote this story wandered around for a few days, when they would have gotten out faster if they'd stayed where they were, and that the Gretna cops were in the same shape as the other cops in the area?
It's been pointed out in other places that several of the Gretna law officers who stopped the people from crossing the bridge were black. What sort of racists are they?
Meanwhile, the sole reason all of those people at the Superdome and the Convention Center didn't have food, water, and toilets was that the Governor ordered that the Red Cross and Salvation Army not be let in to New Orleans.
Why aren't you screaming about *her* racism?
So you have evidence that he is? Seems that the default setting for lots of folks is that he's a racist unless he somehow proves otherwise. How exactly is he to do so, when the assumption has already been made? "Prove you're not racist" is rather akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Would he have had to exercise his apparently godlike power over the forces of nature itself by steering Katrina away? Does everyone have to prove they're not racist, or is it just Republican Presidents who appoint African Americans to positions of prominence in their cabinets? As to how Iraq became involved in the situation, I'm not quite clear. Who's been claiming that Iraq caused 9/11, by the way? Then again, along those lines, I suppose you knew that Iraq had no WMD all along, right? Centuries of combined experience in foreign policy and intelligence analysis from agencies the world over are no match for good old fashioned Progressive certainty that anyone with an "R" after his/her name is automatically lying, right? Not mistaken, but lying, eeeeevil, and quite likely to poke the homeless with sharp sticks as a hobby.
See, personally, I think that the actions of the Gretna officials in question are intolerable. They should be investigated at the Federal level, and I've no qualms whatsoever about the investigation taking on a civil rights angle, as it would seem that there are more than sufficient grounds for such an action. I find it rather puzzling, however, when the incompetence and/or malice of a municipal employee is somehow extrapolated to signify the racism of a sitting President (of the opposing party, natch) - which, again, has somehow become a given in many circles (rather like the "certainty" that President Clinton had designs on world government was among many on the far right during his Administration). The phenomena of generalized hysteria and demonization to the point of charicature regarding one's political opposites aren't unique...it's just interesting to see the ways in which they manifest themselves in new and previsouly unimagined ways as circumstances allow.
away from his small DRY town.
In-excusable in America.
He may as well have shot a few of them.
There's hate to go around on this comment page--a whole lot of people happier to point fingers than to analyze, empathize as much as possible with those with whom they disagree, and then try to find a common ground that fits both our need to function as a community and their sense of moral right. But then, that's not what the liberal or conservative blogospheres do--fingerpointing is a much easier type of daily procrastination.
Anyhoo, this Cirby fellow has been zeroed in on for apostasy to the liberal line, not for hate.
Why pay attention to the useless, braindead trolls? Just let Arthur know how you feel...
"the Governor ordered that the Red Cross and Salvation Army not be let in to New Orleans. "
crock
of
shit.
Source it, Prove it. Document it.
Otherwise, I won't debate that point with you, and you lose.
i call shananigans on Cirby!!!!
Shemp, Wow, "a special place in hell" all for a police officer who didn't shoot anyone, though the people he didn't let in probably went hungry for a day longer....and what was he suppose to do with all these people once they were in his Parish? Give them play-stations to eat, large screen tv's to drink?
Isn't that Christo-fascist christian talk to say someone is going to hell?
Tread, Democrats don't put the party above all else? What color is the sky in your world? Where is the demand for the Governor of Lousiana to resign? Or do you think she did just fine through all this? Zell Miller isn't welcomed in your party exactly because he DOESN'T toe the party line.
Republicans eat there own..Trent Lott was taken out by conservative bloggers who picked up the story of his remarks first and chewed on them for days.
Rogers:
Gretna didn't flood, but neither did the area the writers were in. Most of the Quarter was above water. The area around the Convention Center was well above water. Gretna didn't have *any* supplies or relief efforts in it. All of the efforts in New Orleans were centered around the Superdome and the CC.
By the time the writers had their confrontation with the Gretna cops, there had been bus evacuations going on from the Superdome for *two days*, and supplies were arriving at the Convention Center.
"In other words, if they'd just stayed in one place and not run off a few miles in the wrong direction, they would have been in better shape."
Silly people, trying to get to where the food and water was. After all, everyone knows that evacuating tens of thousands of people from one place is going to go so much faster than evacuating thousands at several locations.
I mean, just think about how quick it is to get "out" of the sports stadiums like the superdome when everyone is trying to leave at the same time, much quicker than coming in. It's not like anyone ever parks across the street or a few blocks away just because spreading out the exit points makes traffic go that much faster.
Well, Well, Well.
The trolls over here are sure easy to see.
Sadly I'm not shocked to hear this.
A buddy of mine is right, the most valuable thing in a catastrophe may well be a gun. I'm thinking something with a scope, large calibre with a bipod.
Sad ain't it when you have to battle the cops just to save your family.
Damn.
These cops should be jailed for murder in a prison where they are placed with general prisoners, ie., mostly black.
They'll find real justice there.
Freedom of Movement... US Constitution...
Perhaps he failed high school civics?
I keep wondering why the emergency workers wouldn't have wanted to stay and lend a hand.
MD--he may as well have shot a few of them? Um, no. That would be murder or attempted murder. Not letting them over the bridge is small-minded, chickenshit, and repugnant, but it's not tantamount to shooting them.
We have to be precise with our words people. Hyperbole just cheapens the truth, which itself is enough to bring us to tears.
So the Republicans don't want to rebuild New Orleans but they're obsessed with rebuilding Bagdhad? Maybe I'm off-topic but it seems a strange juxoposition. This whole worst of both worlds thing is out of hand. When you need "Them" they're nowhere to be found, when you don't need "Them" they're in your way messing things up. No thanks.
Bill Hall,
Until the moderate Christians speak out en masse against the extreme Christians, there will be this type of lumping together.
Islamists are slammed all the time for not speaking out against extremists (as if by not speaking out, it automatically gives permission). You are seeing the reverse trend.
I speak out against Christians all the time because like our Administration, the rhetoric OFTEN doesn't match the actions. So, sorry if your rhetoric matches your actions and you feel maligned against. But as a gay person who is being kept from marrying the woman I love due to the ACTIONS of these extreme christians and some not so extreme christians, I will continue to rail against people who claim to be christians.
Your timeline on this is questionable, Chad. Shepard Smith reported live on Friday night that the Gretna police weren't allowing people to leave over that bridge on foot.
Also, when you mention supplies arriving to the Convention Center and Superdome by that point, keep in mind that these people were not allowed in to those places by New Orleans police. They were told to cross the bridge into Gretna.
"the Governor ordered that the Red Cross and Salvation Army not be let in to New Orleans. "
Prove it?
easy:
Cirby:
As the police cheif himself states, at that same time, buses had also been running to drop off people who had made it into Gretna at the juncture of the I-10 and Causeway Blvd. The place that was so chaotic, overcrowded, and unorganized that a six year old was found caring for six toddlers by himself.
Was this really the best use for these buses?
Couldn't they have at least packed them with supplies as well? (Gretna had stores, that means water, if nothing else. In emergencies, police are allowed to requisition all kinds of things, I don't think they'd get in trouble for unlocking a store to get food, water and medicine.)
The UPI article confirms that armed police were blocking the way out of NO, and that damage to property was a big fear. They can say that they also thought it was best for the poeple in NO all they want, but unless they also sent supplies with those busloads of people they are lying. Possibly to themselves as well, but they are lying.
If you found yourself abandoned in a city that had just suffered a major disaster, who would you trust to help you share the meager supplies available: a socialist, or a conservative republican?
As the police cheif himself states, at that same time, buses had also been running to drop off people who had made it into Gretna at the juncture of the I-10 and Causeway Blvd.
Are you saying that people were being bused out of Gretna and dropped off in New Orleans at the terminus of that bridge?
I am amazed how politically bent people are here. How you can take what appears to be racist local cops (MAYBE???) and say it is the President of the United States fault just boggles my mind. Anyone and I mean anyone who thinks it is the U.S. governments job to create evacuation and catastrophy plans for individual cities is either extremely ignorant or just plain STUPID. It starts with individual responsibility and works its way up from there. This is a tragedy and I hope that the police of both of the Parishes are investigated but to put this on the federal government level is just rediculous. Get over your Bush hating and try to approach the problem for what it is. If everyone continues to just stand on party lines and not look at where the real failures occured then not only is this type of tragedy likely to happen again it WILL happen again. Failures occured all along the line, people did not evacuate when they should have, the Mayor obviously did not have a plan for his city to get the people out or to support the people until the feds could get there which by all reason would be at least 5-7 days. The Govenor obviously did not work with her local mayors to establish support between the individual parishes. And yes the Feds could have possibly responded a little better, but to be honest remember that they have to first assess where they should respond. Keep in mind that we have strict rules and laws that keep the federal government out of our shorts unless we ask them to come in, it is called States Rights, read the Constitution, those laws are there to protect your states rights and keep the Government out unless you ask for help and certain bureaucratic things need to be done before they can act. We live in a world of laws and I know some of you don't necessarily believe in the law but it protects your butt whether you do or not and that law needed to be followed and as such it makes for delays to get the feds involved. The Mayor and the Govenor all know these laws and know that they are on their own for a few days following a catastrophy. Can this be improved upon, yes definitely but if all you people want to do is have a George Bush which hunt or play the race card and not delve into what the real problems were then they will never be fixed.
Jesus spoke against the Pharisees. That is what we have in the South. Read the parable of the Good Samaritan. While Pat Robertson and Rick Perry use this tragedy to feed their coffers, the groundswell of America is donating what it takes.
And there are still Dixiecrats out there because there is some shite pigs won't roll in. Especially in the South where the dislike for people of color competes with the dislike for Republicans and sometimes the conflict is too much to handle. Only Republicans never make mistakes.
The State Homeland Security Departments are conduits for national policy - informing the states. Go to the DHS website.
There is absolutely no evidence that the state DHS officials were not passing on federal policy.
Admit this is a mess. and whoever was responsible for that order should be criminally charged.
I'd just like to remind people that Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson is a good Democrat.
Democrats in Louisiana sure are messed up people, don't you think? Blanco, Nagin and Lawson. What a triad.
It was a time and place of great madness.
The survivors are fortunate with so many forces working against them and so few working for them. There but for fortune...
We should all count our blessings and send
a few their way.
As for the pointing of fingers... I'd let
the congressional investigations do their thing. They can point with the full force of public censure.
I have few doubts that the history and politics of NOLA were more than just a small part of the problem and will continue to be. New Orleans will never be close to what it was. But will it be better and who's "better" will it be?
McD
Tread Says:
"Just because the guy's a Democrat doesn't automatically make him one of mine." Oh, so now you get to pick and choose. I guess that ends the party affiliation suspense.
"That's the disconnect between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats recognize that there are people who aren't really that Democratic (Zell MIller) and call them out on it. Republicans put party above all else."
And the RINO play the same game on the other side of the ledger
"Then again, you're not really a Republican, are you? You're more of a neo-con. " As Ronny would have said, there you go again.
And of course you have completely missed/intentionally ingnored my central point which is that the parties involved in the refusal to allow access to the west bank of the mississippi are on both sides democrats. The parties that refused Red Cross requests for access to the dome and convention center and their victims were both democrats. The entire state is still for the most part a democratic machine. Or is the gov Blanco a female Zell Miller?
There are enough bodies to smear dozens with the blood of indifference, racism, and everything in between.
We'll need a South Africa - style Truth Commission before this ends. I hope I'll live to see it.
"There is absolutely no evidence that the state DHS officials were not passing on federal policy ..."
If you assert that they WERE passing on Federal policy, then cite any evidence you have.
BTW, there is also no evidence that you have stopped beating your wife yet, etc. etc.
It is YOUR job to provide evidence if you make an assertion. Did you take Logic 101?
I just came from there. None of you knows what you are talking about. Gretna stopped everybody: black, white, tourist, local. That was the only way out.
While Metarie & Slidell may fear New Orleans, Gretna hates it (probably because it's closest to the heart of black New Orleans).
There's no love lost the other way, either.
You Dubyalovers are proving that you are a bunch of evil immoral bastards with every post you make to these blogs.
This was racism pure and simple. People DIED because that bastard sheriff wouldn't let them escape.
You Neocon fascists can all go straight to HELL.
To quote Dick Cheney, "Go Fuck Yourself"
--If you found yourself abandoned in a city that had just suffered a major disaster, who would you trust to help you share the meager supplies available: a socialist, or a conservative republican?--
History demonstrates that there are plenty of scoundrels in both crews. There is certainly plenty of evidence that socialists are as adverse as conservative repulbicans to "sharing" when it's not in their self-interest.
If I were told in an emergency to pick one or the other to help me, I would need more information.
TOM3, recommend you have your lithium level checked immediately.
Tom3:
Again with the loose name calling. There's a difference between a neocon and a fascist. Cheney isn't even arguably the latter. He would need a political philosophy for that.
Also, I don't see much dubyalove here or anywhere else. I want to see a better america. I wish that progressive pages were offering ideas in these tough days, but they're not. All anyone can do is point fingers at the president, who is at best partially at fault. It's the same way how repubs get their panties in a bunch because they all hate Clinton so much that they can't talk seriously about any policy he would have supported. So too have we let irrational discourse about our president's myriad faults distract us from our actual objectives.
That's telling them, Tom3. You've reduced your opponents to rhetorical rubble via your extraordinary display of forensic skill. Well done.
Shutup! He explained...
On that note, I take my leave. Here's to the prayer that all of those who have lost everything in this hell will be comforted, lifted by their neighbors and fellow citizens (us), and restored to emotional, physical, and spiritual health. May God bless them all, and may He do the same for the thousands trying to assist them - at every level.
You are mistaken. There is no evidence either way that I can find.
I was simply answering your assertion.
Don't play your GOPer games with me.
Well, there is no evidence either way I can find that you have not stopped beating your wife yet, either.
So what was the point of your original post, then, RPB?
The parties that refused Red Cross requests for access to the dome and convention center and their victims were both democrats. The entire state is still for the most part a democratic machine. Or is the gov Blanco a female Zell Miller?
You apparently missed my point as well. Democrats tend to sniff out the bad in their party and try to disown it. The Gretna police chief is a bastard, Dem or Repub. I know you're trying to lie and lie and lie about the Red Cross not being able to get into New Orleans, but really, it was a FEMA thing. Blanco and Nagin did all they could to get help. It really is a federal thing.
As for Louisiana being a "Democratic machine", um, 6/9 Congresspeople are Republicans, but thanks for playing. LA is overwhelmingly "red".
Oh, and don't worry about guessing my party affiliation, I'm as much a Democrat as you are a Republican.
Easy solution, when that bridge and highway are rebuilt, simply route them around Gretna and not through. I'm sure the citizens don't want that dirty NO money looting their sales tax income.
RB:
Nice try, but no cigar. The Red Cross link nowhere states that Governor Blanco ordered the Red Cross to stay out of New Orleans.
Instapundit and Radioblogger shouldn't even require a response. Glenn Reynolds would cross the street to avoid the truth if he saw it, and I'm sure you'd react similarly if someone here directed you to a link from the ISO or Larouche. And that's setting aside the fact that those sources only quote feds doing what they've been doing all week -- passing the buck wherever they can.
The fact remains that there may be as many as 40,000 people dead in New Orleans today because FEMA not only failed to provide effective assistance in this situation, but in fact actively blocked supplies and resources from reaching those who needed them most. GWB will go down in history as the president who allowed his own people to drown out of pure contempt.
To any ass-clown dumb enough to agree with House Speaker Hastert about n ot rebuilding NOLA, i counter with this:
No more rebuilding and aid for people in those fine red-state towns and trailer-parks in Tornado Alley, no more aid or rebuilding assistance for anybody who lives anywhere near the Mississippi River floodplains or the Tennessee Valley amd Ohio Valley flood zones either
because all of those things are gonna happen again, so why bother fixing it?
I can only conclude that Hastert and people who agree with him are the type of people who lose IQ points every time they move their bowels
Ok, what would YOU do if YOU were sheriff?
If Gretna would have been left wide open then there most definitely would have been looting killing and total anarchy there too.
Gretna was not the best way to go to get out of New Orleans. There were no shelters there and no transportation out of the area.
We shouldn't be castigating the police for protecting Gretna instead of reaming the whole bloody evacuation and relief "effort."
wonder what these trolls who oppose the rebuilding of NOLA think about GWB's immediate offer to rebuild Trent Lott's house. I'm sure that's well worth the tax dollars, in their opinion.
What a bunch of jackasses.
question of the day for Jason:
what's the premise underlying your assumption that looting, killing and rioting would result if NOLA residents were allowed to escape to dry, higher ground?
it can't be all the looting, rioting and killing we're seeing all over Houston right now because so many evacuees were sent there, now can it? Unless I've missed something, that hasn't happened.
i challenge you to provide a justification for that assumption that isn't based on racism.
Didn't you all hear? We're not supposed to be playing the blame game at a time like this.
If Blanco is not being well represented by her subordinates, than she should so state, and fix it. Blanco's people did this. She is the boss.
Same with the Federal government and its CEO, as is repeatedly pointed out on this site.
Else, it is Blanco's administration's policy, and the buck stops with Blanco.
The rest of the innunendo about sources is just smoke and mirrors.
If you have better evidence or sources, so state. Else, the sources cited and their evidence stands, whether you like it or not.
I await your communications about evidence to the contrary with interest.
Although it was written in an earlier generation, BLACK LIKE ME offers quite a damning perspective on the casual racism of the good ol' boys of Louisiana. While urban New Orleans has certainly changed since that era, I'm willing to bet that the towns outside N.O. are still run in the same way they were way back then.
Have any of you bothered to really read the Red Cross FAQ?
"Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city" - under the circumstances, this may have made some sense.
"The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city" - If everyone had been able/allowed to evacuate, even to Gretna, the Red Cross would have had no reason to enter NO.
"the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives. " - When it became aparent that the evacuations would not/could not be complete, an emergency shelter was set up. No provisions had been made to stock this shelter, and subsequently people suffered and died. This was poor planning (very poor), but not intentional apathy.
"We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access. " The local authorities could not provide security or safe access to anyone, including themselves. Allowing hundreds or thousands of civilians into an area that, as we now know and was then suspected, was civily unsafe, medically unsafe, and logistically impossible would have seemed like a less appropriate decision. In hindsight, those volunteers may have made a significant differance, but at the time the situation was not as evident as it is now.
Before everyon jumps on my comments, I am not pointing any blame at the left or right. I am just trying to show that all parties involved may have indeed had the best intentions in making their decisions, and second guessing thier motives after the fact will not help devise a plan that will work the next time this happens.
Duke sucks.
-tw
Time for some massive lawsuits against that city..
Saying that New Orleans is a major law town, I have a feeling some huge class-action lawsuits are gonna be coming up...
If it was me in that position, I know I would be getting all kinds of letigious.
I'm confused. Jefferson Parish has a sheriff. Gretna has a police chief. Who did this exactly?
So this racist was a democrat.
No big surprise.
My god, it always saddens me how low mankind can go.
Somebody here (I'm sorry, there are just too many of you to keep track of names) said that anarchy was coming and we should all get ready for it. If they read the article they should be aware that anarchy is not coming. When the people who had tried to leave had the necessities of life (food and water) they set up a community and tried to help others in the same situation. It was the law enforcement officers who dispersed that community by force, reducing its members once again to individuals compelled to survive on their own. Anarchy has to be enforced.
A Patriot wanted New Orleans no longer to exist. His country will be in deep trouble without its main freight port.
And finally, somebody said they hoped the people who caused or aggravated this situation had to experience it themselves. Personally, I hope nobody has to experience it ever again. It's a forlorn hope, but I think a preferable one to wishing suffering on people, natural though that impulse is.
I've had to skim most of these comments because so many of the commenters seem to have been reading something other than what was written (and living on a different planet to the rest of us as well). Apologies to the genuinely concerned whose messages I didn't read in full.
May this colossal tragedy come to an end sooner rather than later.
The official website of the Red Cross needs to be as mild-mannered as it can.
It must continue to work with both the Lousiana and New Orleans governments in the future.
The Red Cross cannot be officially seen as casting blame, even when the responsibility for actions taken is pretty hard to avoid.
What is needed now is a candid "non-official web site" expose on what was really going on, regardless of how the chips may fall.
I have no idea whether or not President Bush cares about black people as Kanye West stated, but I do know that people of certain' races were protected by the military at the Superdome and smuggled out under cover of darkness. This has been openly reported in the BBC news, but I have never heard this mentioned in any US reports:
Read: "Britons describe hurricane ordeal" at
news.bbc.co.uk
" ... They later told them they would be secretly smuggled out in groups of 10 under cover of darkness as it had become too dangerous for them to remain in the stadium, she told BBC News."
" ... When we were leaving, people were going 'Where are you going?' and giving us looks."
I thought the full and real US active duty military had not arrived yet, only possibly the LA national guard, if even that.
Are you sure it was not the NO or LA police or sheriffs or similar, under local or state control?
Would the Brits really be able to tell the difference in uniforms under cover of darkness, in a Superdome without any electrical power?
Point is I've never heard this mentioned in the US media, I just keep hearing that 'race wasn't an issue'. Here, apparently, is hard proof if anyone cares to investigate.
As much as I might want to condemn these Gretna cops, it's true the main relief effort was coming from the west... letting refugees to walk out to the east, farther from aid, wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense, really. This is all just a side-effect of a complete lack of any feasible evacuation plan for people who had gotten to the Superdome and Convention Centre collection points, or who were needing help after both had closed.
Let's be clear... it was NEW ORLEANS civil authorities who ordered the hotels emptied, apparently. It was NEW ORLEANS authorities who misled people about the Gretna bridge being open. And it would have been NEW ORLEANS authorities who dispersed first one encampment near their casino headquarters, and another on the freeway near the bridge, in the second case at gunpoint. The "sheriff" in the original story who dispersed the camp after dusk and repossessed refugees' food and water would not have been a Gretna cop... the location of the camp described is well within New Orleans city lines.
Some Gretna police may have said some stupid things to people trying to slip past their roadblock that might suggest a racial motivation, but their actions were at least logical, if not entirely humane. I don't know what the hell the New Orleans police thought they were doing by this point.
Nearly forgot: It was NEW ORLEANS authorities who failed to establish a third collection point after their first two were overflowing (say, in one of those evacuated luxury hotels), leaving people no choice but to sleep in the street. You can't blame the Gretna cops for that, either.
Meet Sheriff Harry Lee, a close friend of Representative David Duke(KKK) of Metairie. I daresay they probably cavort in the woods in the evenings wearing hoods and bedsheets. Sheriff Lee gets re-elected by larger majorities every election (he's been Sheriff since the 1980's), despite (or is it because of?) the fact that blacks arrested by his department have a disturbing tendencies to end up hanging from the rafters of his jail ("I dunno, he musta just got despondent and hung himself!"), and desite the fact that his department quite openly harassed black people caught in white neighborhoods in his parish, pulling them over regularly for "driving while black" and arresting them for any penny-ante thing.
The funny thing is that Sheriff Lee is of Chinese decent, and only fifty years ago, the good ole' boys who cavort with him wearin' bedsheets would have been stringing *him* up from the rafters of the parish jail...
- Badtux the Louisiana Penguin
Somebody SMUGGLED BRITS OUT OF THE SUPERDOME UNDER COVER OF DARKNESS IN GROUPS OF 10 because it was too dangerous for them to remain there. Apparently it was fine for everyone else.
Selma
Bull Connor
Attack dogs
Firehoses
Guns fired by police
If FEMA had organized the federal relief at all, awaiting the evacuees across the bridge would have been water, food, clothes, and shelter.
If FEMA had done its job like it was legally required to be but didn't.
Dereliction of duty, just like Bush in the Vietnam era. This is on Bush because responsibility goes straight to the top. Be honest, Georgie boy. It's the only way you'll ever be more of a man than your lying war criminal dad.
A simple google search shows race issues are nothing new in Gretna:
CITY OF GRETNA LOUISIANA, ET AL., PETITIONERS V. CITIZENS FOR A
BETTER GRETNA, ET AL.
No. 88-597
In the Supreme Court of the United States, October Term, 1988
[...]
Whether, in this vote dilution case brought under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. 1973, the district court properly prohibited the practice of filling all positions on the Board of Aldermen of the City of Gretna, Louisiana, through at-large elections, where the evidence showed that black candidates supported by substantial numbers of black voters received almost no votes from white voters and hence could not be elected to the Board under the at-large system.
[...]
Read it and weep...
That link again:
www.usdoj.gov
What it amounts to is the initial response to any disaster is local, then state, ... and then Federal after at least 2 or 3 days.
That is when FIMA resources can get there. That is the real world.
All of the disaster plans say this, at all three levels.
There are no magic flying carpets in these plans.
No, this is not at all a Gretna gotcha.
It is a failure of disaster planning, disaster management and disaster response, with responsibility in the order listed above, and therefore mainly of the local and state officials.
It is a failure at these levels to implement their own plans and agreements.
Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida had far worse hits and handled them far better.
Louisana had a lesser hit and failed the test.
Oh, regarding Gov. Blanco and why she won the Governor's race over Bobby Jindal: Part may have been race (Jindal is Indian and suspiciously dusky for a Louisiana politician), but mostly it was because of his proposal to shut down the state charity hospital and clinic system and replace it with Medicaid. Governor Huey Long set up the state medical system (now run by the LSU Medical School), which guarantees medical care to all Louisiana citizens regardless of ability to pay (for uninsured patients they are billed on a sliding scale, from $0 if they make below poverty line to full price if they make above $150K), and today, while the majority of Louisianians do not use the system because (like typical government-provided medical systems) it is overcrowded and slow, they cherish the fact that if something happens and they lose their health insurance coverage they have that safety net available to them.
I remember my mother commenting that Jindal's plan to destroy the state's medical system for the uninsured and indigent had people in her working-class neighborhood simply furious because while they did not regularly use the system, it was there for them if they needed it. I was living out-of-state and could not vote, but when I heard what he planned to do, I told her I would have voted against him too.
Note that Blanco is a DINO (Democrat in Name Only). She is anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, in general a typical Southern conservative, and would probably be a Republican in any other state Political party doesn't matter much in Louisiana, due to their unique open primary system where the top two vote getters, regardless of political party, end up going against each other in the runoff election. Politicians switch political party on a dime whenever they think there's political gain, often in the middle of an electoral campaign. In this case, the Republican establishment and their money were behind Jindel, the designated successor to Gov. Mike Foster(R) who had been governor for the previous 8 years, so Blanco ran as a Democrat so that she could get money out of the Democratic establishment. It's a unique system in a unique state, and yet another reason why Louisiana isn't just another Southern state but something unique unto itself.
- Badtux the Louisiana Penguin
I think what 'cirby' and all his peeps are really trying to say is: "Damn niggers just shoulda died. And them commie faggots from Frisco? They shoulda died too. What the fuck they all doin' tryin' to live through a disaster and shit? Damn inconvenient if ya ask me..." and so on, and so on -- muffled only by their head being so deeply up their own smelly, unchristian arse.
Finally, those leftist liberals at FEMA insist, on their web site, that they had supplies of food, water, and generators pre-positioned for immediate deployment to the disaster area. This press release, on August 28, was from *before* the hurricane. It didn't happen. What happened to that food and water? Did someone divert it elsewhere? Reminds me of one of the school districts I encountered, where the food service manager was secretly spiriting out vast quantities of food out the back door to stock her own restaurant's freezers. What happened to
that food and water? Hmm...
In 1906, San Francisco was destroyed by an earthquake. The commander of the local military outpost marched his columns of troops to City Hall within two hours and said, "Mr. Mayor, we are at your disposal. What do you want us to do?" because he saw that the Mayor wasn't going to take orders from him, knew that any relief effort needed a single head, and decided on his own that the Mayor was going to be "the" man. The Mayor immediately dispatched the troops to help the police maintain order, search for survivors, and fight the fires that had sprung up. By the end of the day, thousands of people had been evacuated to safety, and a hasty telegram sent off to the War Department asking for food, blankets, and tents to house the now-homeless population of San Francisco. By 5:30am the next morning, every single tent in the U.S. Army inventory was on its way to San Francisco, and arrived as soon as the trains could get there. Now *THAT* is disaster response. You're telling me that, a hundred years later, we cannot duplicate what that man did with 19th century technology?!
- Badtux the Disgusted Penguin
Cirby, do you have any proof that the dead bodies found in the superdome were murdered? Or are you just spreading more right wing rumors?
In any case there is no reason to punish all people for the crimes of a few. The very idea is racist and so is the PC from Gretna.
I thought penguins were located a little more south than LA.
But I am glad to be corrected on that.
Seems to me that the LA medical reimbursement system is six of one and half a dozen of the other.
A way to get votes from dummies now and cop out later.
If you buy into either you end up a sucker.
Barnum said "There is one born every minute"
Like free lunches.
Great if you believe.
I guess he "had other priorities."
Depends on who 'who he' is ...
Can you retransmit using nouns, and including some specifics about what you mean by priorities?
Does your pronoun include the possibility of "she"?
Such elevated discourse.
Many of you posting here are either ignorant or stupid or both. Why don't you go inform and educate yourselves and then come back and give it another go.
New Orleans denizens made a mess out of their city, why did they think that Gretna needed to become a sh......bowl too. They had a right to protect their town. Anarchy is not allowed in this country. If the anarchists wanted to do damage in NO, so be it, but they should not have expected everyone else to help them to do it to other towns too. We would have had a worse disaster. Inhumane? Talk to Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco about inhumane and place the blame squarely where it should be, on their shoulders.
" ...Such elevated discourse ....
...Many of you posting here are either ignorant or stupid or both. Why don't you go inform and educate yourselves and then come back and give it another go" ...
Say, there, elevateddiscourseperson, can you come out of hiding and have balls enough (ovaries also acceptable) to show us how you are neither as stupid or as ignorant as all the rest of us?
Do you have some wisdom you can share with us dummies?
No?
Didn't think so.
I would expect better posts from a sophomore ... oh, wait ...
Anyway, we will be looking forward to any post you may have about how smart you are ...
When I saw Geraldo losin' it and Shepard Smith actually confronting Hannity's spin efforts, me and a friend checked out the records from the US Census regarding Gretna and New Orleans. I'm glad people have caught on to this.
This is yet another disgusting example of America's dark side. People who would actually block an exit path from dying, starving and dehydrating fellow citizens suffering from the worst American disaster in 100 years (besides the Bush administration itself). This would still look bad if it had happened before the civil rights movement.
For those out there defending the acts of the police, you should be ashamed of yourselves. I bet you probably call yourselves Christians too, so let me ask you, what would Jesus do? I'm sure he wouldn't block off your fellow Americans in order to protect your pristine city from them black folk.
Anyone who thought that Gretna was some sort of paradise with an abundance of food, water, and shelter doesn't know jack. First off, Gretna isn't some sort of rich white enclave (like, say, parts of Uptown/Garden District). It's strictly working class. And there was nothing there for the evacuees - the electricity was NOT on there (if it was, it was only in sporadic areas), there were NO red cross shelters set up with food and water, and in fact the only stores with any goods had already been looted, and the one shopping mall was burned down. The few people who had stayed in Gretna and other areas on the West Bank were barricaded in their homes scared to death. True, most of the West Bank had not flooded, but that was about it.
The people of greater New Orleans have always looked down on the poor working class stiffs on the West Bank, and it doesn't surprise me that the attitude remains.
Hello People! This is the DEEP SOUTH! You know, 'Bama, Mississippi, Louisianna... Did you NOT think it was like that??? Where the hell have you burnt outs been?
And, I must say there's some serious BIGOTRY towards christians on this page - talk about ignorant racist - look in the mirror - jeez
Re: Shepard Smith and Geraldo report.
Ohhh, that Fox News is just another whiny, liberal media outlet! ::chuckle::
Sadly, the situation went from a rescue operation to a pre planned in advance MILITARY-POLICE-STATE-MARTIAL LAW. The victims in New Orleans need water, food, clothing and a place to stay. What they DO NOT need is threats and weapons being shoved in their faces if they don't "stay in line" by irrational out of control National Guard, Local and State Police and battle fatigued Military, straight from Iraq. Several of them seem to be using ANY excuse to apply shoot to kill over rescue. There is a lot of misinformation being told about the extent of the looting, rapes, and sniper fire to justify this policy.
It seems unreasonable they wont let people take food from the stores that was not touched by flood waters because when there is a flood, merchants are not allowed to sell ANY food that has survived. They have to dispose of it damaged or not as a precaution according to state health persons. I know this for a fact because I was in a flood once and the local merchant of a grocery store was ordered to do so.
stranger81, glad you addressed that laughable post by RB which (I presume seriously) proffered instapundit & radioblogger when asked for some sort of proof. I don't think I could have handled it, my response is generally to parody the ridiculous, but some things are so ludicrous as to be beyond satire.
Alvaro's 3-4 days of photos give you a good idea of what happened in the French Quarter.
www.kodakgallery.com
You see the looting and the arson.
----
The Gretna situation needs to be investigated.
Sadly, what is being overlooked here is that since the Aug. 27 declaraton of national emergency by Mr. Bush, all responsibilty for the handling of the aftermath of Katrina was assumed by the federal govt. "ALL RESPONSIBILITY" as stated in the letter to Gov. Blanco.
As anyone in the military should know, you can delegate authority, but you cannot delegate responsibilty. Again, sadly, this has not been a guiding principle of this federal administration. From the War in Iraq, through Abu-Ghraib no one has been taking responsibilty except low level personnel who were considered expendable in a coverup. Oh, except for the female general in charge at Abu-Ghraib, she got blamed and discharged.
During the so-called confirmation hearings held for Michael Brown, he outlined what he expected his duties to be as head of FEMA. It included assessing state and local agencies plans and abilities to handle emergencies.
Compare the resposnse to Florida's hurricane a year earlier and the response to Katrina. The differences are stark and tragic.
pdf here:
CLICK HERE
FEMA's story here:
CLICK HERE
To condense:
It is no surprise that there is racism in the South, much more pervasive than in other areas of the country.
The lines between Democrats and Republicans are more blurred in the South due to the Dixiecrat movement.
That there is no excuse for Bush not to have activated a federal response immediately instead of waiting for days and conditioning federal assistance on Gov. Blanco ceding all authority to the federal government.
That first responders were overwhelmed by the tragedy much as they would be in a nuclear attack. The DHS should have planned for this.
There is a whole lot to be investigated and considered.
Waiting for months for George Bush and company to investigate this would result only in a white wash and "blame gaming" all others. (As Daniel Schorr commented,
we can only hope President Bush won't be too hard on himself.)
Gretna is a mixed-race town, 53% white, 35% black. Clearly, it's not a case of whites keeping blacks out.
I encourage everyone to file a report to the FBI at their tip page. tips.fbi.gov
Be sure to ask that the so-called sheriffs be prosecuted under the Reconstruction Act.
Please send this around for others to file complaints against these racist assholes.
I am Citizen Michael John Keenan
P.s. send copies to both Judicuary committees and all members.
For those who question the veracity of the story about the Gretna Police...please listen to the latest "This American Life" program on NPR. Ira Glass spoke at length with four or five people who attempted to escape from New Orleans - that's the word they used, "escape". One of the people he spoke with was the woman from the story above who had the experience with the Gretna police.
ALL of the stories are heartbreaking, chilling, and sobering. Regardless of whether you think authorities did a good job or a horrendous job...please, listen to this program and hear what it was like for them. There's no bullshit, no spin in their words..they're just telling us what happened. Go to the NPR website, you can link to Ira Glass and "This American Life" from there.
Here is the link for the radio show, unfortunately the RealAudio version isn't available yet.
GREESEYPARROT conveniently forgets to mention that the main reference offered to show that the Red Cross and Salvation Army were not let into New Orleans by the State was from the Red Cross official web site.
The others led to network news video and interviews. But they were secondary background material.
What IS laughable is GREESEYPARROT's
strained effort to evade the simple facts of the matter by blowing such smoke. Of course, he offers no evidence to the contrary, either. Best he can do is ad hominem.
www.nizkor.org
When New Orleans is rebuilt the should pass an ordnance denying entrance to the city for any one that lives in Gretna . Punishment for Gretna resident found n the City 5 days locked up with out food, water or medical care.
If you mean "state" in the broad sense, you are absolutely right.
Repeat a lie often enough and it will pass for the truth.
Sheesh.
If you were in a vehicle, you could enter Gretna.
The maps I have show the expressway exits into Algiers, New Orleans Parish, not Jefferson Parish.
What authority do Gretna officers legally have in NOP ?? Or was legality not a consideration in their actions??
(let alone morality.)
Exiting NO to the west?? Jefferson Parish again, with probably another redneck police chief.
And I meant my previous post to be :
<ELEPHANT>
If you were in a vehicle, you could enter Gretna.
</ELEPHANT>
Seems to me there was a governors' conference in July and Gov Blanco among others noted that the National Guard strength was reduced below what is needed to handle hurricanes, as the result of their being in Iraq and recruitment being accordingly down. This was echoed by other governors in the area.
So everyone was concerned all along about these potential disasters, except our fearless leader and his frat boy appointees.
The scope of this one was way beyond what we had in NY on 9/11, which was a photo-op for our fearless leader after he crawled out of hiding, plus a lot of work in one part of town by locals and people of good will from across the country.
This is why we need and have ACLU and NAACP
No, RPC, i mean state as in LA.
"... Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.
The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane ..."
.............
That is the official word from the Red Cross site, and the National Guare, local authorities, and state Homeland Security Department are all under Gov Blanco directly or indirectly.
Democracy Now covered similar incidents. [More ... ]
Who let this happen for two days
Someone had to question what the Sherrif was doing.
The conditions in New Orleans, THE ATTEMPTED GENOCIDE AND THE USE OF THE HURRICANE AND FLOODING TO COVER IT UP MAKES EVERY BLACK NATIONALIST AND SEPARATIST IN THE SOUTH WORK HARDER TO REVIVE THE OLD WASHITAW EMPIRE THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE FRENCH STOLE AND 'SOLD' ALMOST ONE MILLION SQUARE MILES OF BLACK WASHITAW TERRITORY ( see www.suzar.com )
Blacks in the South MUST WORK HARD TO GAIN THEIR AUTONOMY, INDEPENDENCE AND THE RETURN OF ALL STOLEN LANDS.
The fact is before 1805, Black nations like the Washitaw, Jamasse, Guale occupied the region from Georgia to Texas. There was a Black (as in Negro) nation in California.
If people are really serious about doing what is right, THEY WILL GET THEIR ARZES BACK TO EUROPE, VACATE THE LANDS OF BLACKS AND INDIANS AND ALLOW THESE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE TO RULE THEMSELVES.
It is galling for any one of settler origins to vomit about Black people when they are squattering on Black land. Louisiana was part of the Black Wachitaw Empire. So was Texas, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Arkansas.
The only way Blacks will gain justice is when all stolen Blacks lands are returned and Blacks separate and create a strong Black nation.
After that is done, the blue-eyed can destroy the brown-eyed and vice versa. After all aren't brown-eyed people superior to blue-eyed people.
Aren't blond haired people from Russia more intelligent than blond haired people of German origins?
WE ARE FED UP WITH RACISM!!!
INDEPENDENCE AND NATIONTIME NOW!!
America is a third world country.
As a white person watching this genocide unfold, I can't help but wonder if this is what non-Jews felt like after Kristalnacht.
I'd like to see the police of Gretna should be hungpublicly for this act of betrayal against humanity.
Genocide (from Merriam-Webster)
n: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
- genocidal /"je-n&-'sI-d&l/ adjective
I do believe that the Gretna police were not stopping people from crossing the bridge before the hurricane arrived during mandatory evacuation. Anybody could have left the city at that point. After the flood waters rose and people freaked out, and many were dying in their attics or neck deep water, the others that made it to the superdome / interstate area were dry (food & water drops are extremely critical at this point but didnt arrive?) But anyways, those people had dry feet. why should they cross into Gretna where they had been hit equally by the storm with limited resources and had no assistance either. They could not help all those people, come on!!!! Besides that, I'm sure that the Gretna police thought that those people would be helped, and i'm sure that they offered assistance when they realized the retardation of the local/fed government. I, like most people running their mouths don't really have know exactly who to blame, but it looks to me like everybody from the citizens to the local to the federal government is to blame.
peace
If there is no law against this, obviously a crime against humanity, what has our society come to? This is how NIMBY becomes criminal.
This thread may have the word "ass" mentioned in it with the greatest density I've ever seen. But so.
A. Patriot writes:
Common sense says don't build below sea level in hurricane prone areas. By the way, don't forget to thank the French for New Orleans (and also thank them for the couple of tents and cots their [sic] donating now).
Well, we can thank the French for Nawlins, as well as St. Louis and Minneapolis and Topeka and a friggin' ton of arable land. As long as we're talking old transactions, let's mention the French aid in our Revolutionary War, where their support of us made the Brits ready to let us go, on the antiquainted theory of "one war at a time."
Common sense also says "build where it is profitable to do so," and before the maintenance dollars were cut, New Orleans made a good example of that.
Lord, when will people stop setting up the French as our national straw man?
When Americans start learning their own history. What are the odds of that happening?
I, personally, would like to see the police in Gretna rounded up and placed about 5 deep in a clear, thick-walled plexiglass above-ground latrine during the next braves game. Sort of like a public port-a-potty with a deep, clear base that contained 5 Gretna Police per potty.
Ideally, it would be an all-you-can eat chili-cheese dog and beer spectacular and you could watch live on the web or from the screen in the park as mound, after rancid mound of shit piled up around them until their eyes bulged out and they were just about to give up...
That's when the fun would begin. We'd open a door and let in some light and fresh air and tell them to head in the direction of the light up yonder-maybe even rinse 'em down a little as they approached the door to their salvation. Just to be told something like,
"You know, you were right. Gretna isn't going to turn out like stinkin' New Orleans...we burnt it to the ground so you have nothing to return to...oh, and by the way...You aren't coming out this door...alive."
Of course we'd use the more politcally correct stun-gun or tazer to knock them out and keep these pigs at bay--knowing that a couple of them would end up drowning in a pool of their own feces and defecation before they got the chance to starve to death.
I mean at least they wouldn't ruin the game.
=======================================
To be honest, I delight only in the short-lived thrill of just-deserts (pardon the pun). I would never wish on anyone this kind of harm nor the kind of harm inflicted by the Gretna police or the current administration.
What's even worse was the fact that upon searching Google for the story of some recent prisoners who were forced to line the walls of their cells with their own feces over the course of several years, I came across the following harsh realization:
www.google.com
It is a shame what happened. I saw those guys reporting it live - saying let them walk out of here. But - to where? To wander the streets of Gretna? Gretna's a city of 17,500, right? If they let everyone walk out, to Gretna - they would have. EVERYONE. People who needed help - and people who like to victimize people. The population of the Superdome would have filed into Gretna. Potentially 20 - 30,000 file into a town of 17,500.... do the math. And the resources werent there anyways.
This is absolutely un friggenbeleivable that something like this would happen in the USA.Ibet sherriff tight ass would be singing a different tune if it was his fat ass trying to leave a disaster area only to be turned around by some trigger happy Barney Fifes. anyway ,who is he (or they) to tell anybody where they can or cant go in this country.Im just pissed off beyond beleif that these people had no compassion for their fellow man during such a catastrophe.It just violates the standards of decency that such situations demand,hell , they should have been packing as many of these people as they could in their cars and helping them to safety-not throwing them to the wolves,after all isnt that their reponsibility -PUBLIC SAFETY.The biggest shame is that this fat ass will probably get a promotion instead of what he deserves-a jail cell.
Thank God I live in Canada.
Was said before, but you have to hear "Surprising stories from survivors in New Orleans." done on "This American Life" host Ira Glass
www.thislife.org
Thisa audio piece below is done so well you will literally see the story.
warning be prepare for for your sole to be shakenfrom its foundations....
What is is amazing here is that no one seems to criticize the NO police Captain who lied to these people and told them to cross the bridge in the first place.
As for evacuations and race, there is enough blame to go around. You have a mayor (who is black) in a major American city, as well as a Governor, who seemed to be clueless in handling the situation. Yes, FEMA's response was a disaster in itself, but what about the local officials??? Very few comments here seem to focus on the lack of local planning and putting plans into action to evacuate those persons who could not evacuate themselves.
As for the Chief of Police in Gretna, he did what he is hired to do. He protected the city in which he was in charge of doing. He didn't discriminate, "NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO CROSS".
Once law and order is established in the city where his residents live (and pay taxes), then other things can be considered.
I LIVE IN F***ING GRETNA, AND THAT PLACE WAS INHABITABLE! It didn't have the water damage that NOLA had, but it was total chaos!
As far as him needing to be shot, you show your ignorance. If you lived in Gretna and that type of trouble was right over the bridge and coming your way, and they had no where to go once they got there. You would have a different opinion on how politicaly correct you think you are.
It's sad to see what happened to the people of NOLA, but I am glad to know that my house made it through the flood, but I would have been pissed if I would have lost everything to looters.
Why should the interests of a town of 17,000 people be valued over the interests of a city of 400,000? If you allow the suburbs surrounding a major city to block access during a disaster, you make evacuation impossible.
An evacuation route over a water-locked city is a matter of life-and-death. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said that only one route out of the city was still open after the levee breaks -- the bridge to Gretna. People probably died because they weren't allowed over that bridge.
Additionally, it does not appear that the Gretna police had the authority to block the bridge, which has been designated both a state and federal highway.
Let the Gretna PD know how you feel...(504) 366-4374
all these fucking pecker-headed Gretna cops should be stripped of their badges & locked away forever & throw the keys away!! shooting at innocent women & children &* taking their food & water is unspeakable & un forgivable. hell, maybe they should all be stripped naked & tied to the bridge & left to die!!
I hope that the police and people of Greta, LA will suffer some major future consequnces because of their defense-of-property over saving-lives philosophy. Suburbs are often unapologetic parasites to major cities when things are going good. Short range thought makes these parasites disengage if their host becomes ill. Did they really believe N. O. would die? Rebuilding will begin and reconnections will take place, but memories of what happened will remain for years to come. The truth is: there would probably be no "upscaled" Greta, LA without New Orleans. We will see just how much they will be allowed to tap into the city's resources when they come back better than before. We are going to hear more about this. Some of the residents of Greta will even speak against this. Guaranteed!
I hope that the police and people of Gretna, LA will suffer some major future consequnces because of their defense-of-property over saving-lives philosophy. Suburbs are often unapologetic parasites to major cities when things are going good. Short range thought makes these parasites disengage if their host becomes ill. Did they really believe N. O. would die? Rebuilding will begin and reconnections will take place, but memories of what happened will remain for years to come. The truth is: there would probably be no "upscaled" Greta, LA without New Orleans. We will see just how much they will be allowed to tap into the city's resources when they come back better than before. We are going to hear more about this. Some of the residents of Greta will even speak against this. Guaranteed!
You people are all idiots!! We leave Gretna for every storm because there is no shelter, food, or resources to provide us much less thousands of others. Gretna is a working class city of 2 sqaure miles. I applaud the lock down of the city. My home survived the storm, but it would not have survived the anarchy of those who probalby have never crossed that bridge beefore in their lives!! Most people in New Orleans think we still live in shanty shacks with outhouses. The portrayl by the media and this rag is totally bogus.
For the record, I cannot return to my home in Gretna because as of today, 2 weeks after the storm, I still have no power, phone, or water. The closest grocery store is 12 miles away, and there is no gas to drive a car. Get past the racial angle. It is good press but not reality.
Fact: The City of Gretna is the 3rd and 4th exit from the bridge. The first exit is still in the City of New Orleans.
http://www.gretnasucks.com
Chief Arthur S. Lawson, Jr.
alawson@gretnapolice.com
Gretna Police Department
City of Gretna, Louisiana
200 Fifth St.
Gretna, LA 70053
(504) 366-4374
Arthur S Lawson
20 Derbes Dr
Gretna, LA 70053-4942
504-368-3009
http://www.arthurlawson.com
Why haven't we heard more about this on the national news?
It shouldn't suprise anyone that some podunk white sheriff from a State that has the Napoleanic code as the cornerstone of its legal system would play wild wild west in the midst of a crisis.
What goes around comes around and this fat cracker and his deputies will get what's coming to them sooner or later.
Thursday, September 8
Major Garrett updates us on the Red Cross AND the Salvation Army being blocked from helping by Louisiana state officials
HH: Making an encore appearance, and we're very grateful for it, Major Garrett of Fox News Channel. Major, you certainly made waves yesterday. Perhaps the most reported story in America was yours. You followed up on it tonight. What has your investigation into the Red Cross relationship with the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security revealed today?
MG: A couple of things. First of all, it established on tonight's Special Report, that it wasn't just the Red Cross. It was the Salvation Army. Both agencies, both organizations were ready, prepared, pre-positioned, eager, but were thwarted in their efforts to bring supplies, basic supplies...not everything these people needed, but core supplies to the Superdome, and then eventually, the convention center. Why? Because the New Orleans Department of Homeland Security said look. Our plan is to evacuate these people. Marty Evans, the President and the CEO of the American Red Cross, said on camera...you don't have to believe me. Believe her. You can read her own eyes, saying look. We were told if we came in, we would create an atmosphere that would lead people to stay, and give them the feeling that they should stay. And the state did not want that.
HH: Now you said the New Orleans Department of Homeland Security. Did you mean the Louisiana Department...
MG: I'm sorry. Yes. Louisiana. Right. Because it is a state agency that is answerable to the governor, although the governor did not explicitly make this statement, I'm told so far.
HH: Who made this decision?
MG: I've also asked the Red Cross to create for me, and they've promised to do so, a timeline and a paper trail.
HH: Oh, very good.
MG: Now, they are a bit...they're very eager to put together the timeline. They're a little bit more reluctant about the paper trail, because as they've told me, look. We expect all this stuff to be subpoenaed by Congress very soon. I said well, that's probably true, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to get it.
HH: Exactly.
MG: They said yeah, but look. The issue here, Hugh, is the Red Cross knows it's going to have to deal with Louisiana the next time around. And the next time around. And they're always trying to avoid the appearance of sticking it to somebody, if the political leader in charge feels as if the Red Cross is sticking it to them. So they feel that they're in a bit of a tenuous place.
HH: On the other hand, Major Garrett, they're a quasi-public agency, depending upon the good will of the public for their donations.
MG: Right.
HH: I think the public wants to know.
MG: And I said look. You guys had no problem posting this on your own website. So I just think it's a matter...I said you know, if you want to give it to me, and then put it on your website, that's fine. But just make sure I'm in the loop, because I want to know who said what to whom. And if that's written down anywhere, the public should see it.
HH: And what did the Salvation Army tell you?
MG: The Salvation Army basically said look. We...first of all, both agencies also want to let people know that they've served the needs of thousands of people who got out, and who got out just a little bit to high ground, north of New Orleans. But they couldn't get in to meet those needs. They asked to get in. They were prepared with their...the Salvation Army has these ever-familiar portable kitchen canteens, is what they call them. They can actually make food, produce food on spot, and distribute it there. People line up. We've seen that at hurricanes and other natural disasters. They were ready. Not allowed in. At first, it was this idea that we don't want to create a magnet at the evacuation site. Secondarily, it became an issue of well, there's lots of water, and we can't assure your safety, so on and so forth. Here's another key point, Hugh. I was very specific with the American Red Cross, president and CEO Marty Evans, and said wait. Tell me clearly. Were you prepared to go in before the levees broke? Before water became an issue of any kind? She said absolutely. Were you denied access before the levees broke? She said we were denied access from minute one.
HH: And did they attempt to renew their request to get in after the levees broke, Major Garrett?
MG: Yes. I am told that the timeline indicates a frequent reasking of this question.
HH: And a frequent denial by Louisiana state Department of Homeland Security?
My comment is - Louisana State Dept of Homeland Security is a state agency totaly controlled by Governor Blanco !!!!
Having evacuated my home in Gretna, I thank the Gretna police for protecting the city.
Thanks you flippin idiots. Until you started giving out phone numbers, I was able to call the GPD and ask if any untilities have been restored. Now they won't give me any information because of the prank calls.
I am now unemployed and cannot find out what I need to go home. I know that I am not the only one. We are working class folks who cannot stay out of a job. Thanks to you, my misery is now going to be extended. I hope all of you who are calling end up just like me--homeless, umemployed, and blocked from information because of a bunch of fools. Think about this when you go to sleep in your house, and go to your job.
If you really want to do something, go to the AstroDome and offer a family your house for a week or two. Talk is so cheap.
I am a person of color, resident of New Orleans, and business owner in the City of Gretna. I feel that the negativity here will only add to the problems the people of Gretna and New Orleans will have to endure. CNN has only shown the worst news. I watched for days to find if my home and/or business was ok, but nothing. Go ahead and follow the herd you bunch of DEPENDENT thinkers.
I snuck into the City of Gretna to check my business on the evening of 9/3. I am white and I had six white cops with guns drawn interrogating me. Luckily I proved to them it was my business or I would have gone to jail. They made me sleep on the couch in the lobby until daybreak. The only thing black about it was the coffee they were drinking to stay awake so long.
Also to add to a comment above The bridge lands in the City of New Orleans on the Westbank side. The pedestrian evacuees would have passed the first 2 exits to make it to the City of Gretna (3rd exit). Along the way they would have passed a mall (which was set ablaze) and numerous small groceries which they could have looted for food. If they had exited at the first and second exits, there are numerous ground level streets which could have gotten them into Gretna; more ground level streets than the number of Gretna Cops. Why would they walk the extra mile and a half?
Above are just facts. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one. My opinon is that I'm glad it has become a racial issue. Now the Feds and the State will have to throw more money at problem. Thank you you narrow minded idiots. Finally, you have done something good.
It's the welfare state!
Dependency on the gov't - they pay for my food, housing, clothing, health care, fatherless children. i depend on them for everything - they'll take care of me.
help thyself!
I think they should make the Police Chief of Gretna stand at gunpoint on a bridge in 90 degree heat for a week without food, water, and a toilet. Then fire him.
They could have kept walking North, they could have met up with help somewhere instead of being forced to stay where they were.
Sadly, no one had the guts to get shot and die during the confrontation on the bridge. Imagine how much more impact it would have had if someone on crutches or in a wheelchair slowly crossed the bridge and got shot by Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson.
The police chief and all involved are guilty of criminal offenses. Someone needs to spearhead a movement to get them charged, prosecuted and thrown in jail where they all belong. Losing their jobs is the least of it and and should be an automatic. This story is an unprecedented outrage !!!!!
We would like to think we live in an age of reason and higher intellect.
With our computers, cell phones and digital cable.
The truth is that we are still a primitive race.
Those that dont understand simply lack empathy and imagination.
If you want to exlude the rights of other people start with yourself first.
Poverty begets poverty.
If you dont believe it, try it.
Gretna preventing the beating old people in wheelchairs to steal their water, the bludgenging of people to death in front of others for no reason, the raping of 2 and 3 year old kids for fun and the shooting at rescue crews that tried to help.
Everyone is acting as if Blacks weren't allowed in Gretna. Sorry, the fact is... NO ONE from the East bank was allowed in Gretna. They had their hands full with what they had. They had enough problems, Oakwood burning, being shot at on their own turf, etc...
You think New Orleans was out of control, imagine if all the people (black, white, red, brown, etc...) came over the bridge and they had no where to go.
At least SOMEONE stood their ground and said "We have enough".
New Orleans didn't.
Now there's 2 policemen that shot themselves and 400 that didn't show back up to work.
All of Gretna is in tact and they're helping the other departments defend themselves.
THANK GOD GRETNA POLICE WERE THERE!!!
THANK YOU GRETNA POLICE!!!!
true the world has seen just how good we could be at how bad we can be
when its you on this side of the gun or the barrel
when its your child or loved one suffering for a drink
gretna bush mexico mayor superdome its but a taste of what tommorow brings
i am death i dont discriminate
i am lies how will i persuade
i am evil in its own way
THANK YOU GDP. YOU DID THE JOB WE HIRED YOU TO DO. WE ARE COMING HOME!! AND WILL HELP YOU ALL THE WAY. FOR ALL OF YOU IDOIOTS OUT THERE, GO TO A SHELTER AND TAKE THOSE FOLKS INTO YOUR HOUSES NOW. STOP TALKING. DO SOMETHING.
come on idiots. Where r u? Had to go to bed? Have a job? Go to a shelter. Take those poor unfortunates into your homes NOW!!!
Chief of police of Gretna: ALawson@gretnapolice.com ****PLEASE E-mail him and ask him about his values and morals for not allowing these people to cross the bridge. God will have the biggest punishment for him!
Take those poor unfortunates into your homes NOW!
As someone who approves of the Gretna police keeping them out of your city, at a time when they were desperate, thirsty, and perhaps in some cases dying, it's pretty ironic that you are telling other people to take them in.
This is not the time to bash one another over something that is nothing new. Racism and discrimination has not ended in The United States (or in the rest of the world for that matter) and it will never end until the collective conscious (mindset) of the people change. As long as there are people out there who continue to fuel the flame of negativity with their thoughts and actions then there will continue to be incidents and situations like this.
(I am referring to the situation with the Gretna Police Department and the refugees; the looting [of non-essential items], shootings, etc.)
Maybe the police department felt that they were doing what was best for their community or maybe they had another agenda.
There are consequences (good and bad) for every thought, spoken word and action. Each one will be held accountable. Public, personal or otherwise.
Bottom line is put yourself in the refugees' place. If that was YOU instead of them and you had to go through what they had to experience; What would you do and how would you feel?
The worst thing a human being can think is that it will not happen to them. It will at one time or another in your life, you will fall on hardtimes whether it is of your own doing or not.
Compassion, unconditional love, service to others. What you sow so shall you reap.
Good! These people showed that they have no respect for their city or the citizens that live in it. Even before the hurricane, New Orleans was nothing but a ghetto. Most of the people there were already living hand to mouth, living on the government. Thats why alot of them dont have a dime to their name now. They had plenty of time to evacuate..yet they stayed. The city is below sea level..yet they raise their families there. Racism is not the problem here...its not race...IT'S JUST STUPID PEOPLE..and sorry but I'm tired of stupid, selfish people ruining our cities because they want to live like animals. Black or white.
Thank You Chief!
You people who agree with the police department of gretna should be ashamed. I would love to see you all go through the same ordeal and see how you feel about others not helping you.
I am glad this hurricane happened, not because it has displaced thousands but I am glad because it shows racism and classism at its finest.
The U.S. way of thinking is... blacks help yourself. No money (of any race) who cares, you are amongst the people we don't want here anyway.
And guess what, now Al Qaeda can destroy the entire U.S. the government is "suppose" to be so big and bad. And look they don't even know how to help their citizens in a natural disaster.
GET READY FOR ANOTHER TERRORIST ATTACK. believe that they're watching this country act like IDIOTS....
and by the way I am white and live in Iowa
Give me a break. I give the Grenta police chief kudos for having the balls to do his job. The loving people of New Orleans are the same people who were murdering and raping children in the superdome DURING the storm. If I were a resident of Grenta I would not want them in my city as well. Those people are not human, they are nasty, immoral vial animals. My husband is a police officer in Ohio and was sent down to Grenta to help guard the city from these "people" who were looting and stealing. I am proud of him and what he did down there. I and he would do it again in a minute. Didn't God do this once before?? Uhmmm, and what was that reason???? Immorality!!!!!!!
Terrible stuff. But if theNational Guard, Army, State Guard had accompanied people on BUSES to designated shelters outside of New Orleans, it would have been different. The issue of security would have been addressed. Gretna was no more set up for refugees than New Orleans was set for feeding and sheltering its own. There may have been no plans because there was no interest in those who could not get out. Think reckless disregard and depraved indifference and take someone to court and not just the sheriff of Gretna. And get the troops back from Iraq to defend OUR oilwells.
Who sent your husband to Gretna, Dawn?
The most depressing thing about your comments is that the kind of people who live in Gretna, and were protected by those police, are no different than 99.9 percent of the people who were chased off the bridge at gunpoint. If you lament the crimes committed against helpless people in the Superdome, you should be outraged that those same innocents were blocked from leaving New Orleans.
Impeach George W. Bush -- A Call to All Blogs and Activists!
The time has come. It's time to stay on point. The blogs need to unite around a rallying cry of "IMPEACH BUSH." As of this post, the term "impeach bush" is the third most popular search term at Technocrati.
President Bush has totally and utterly failed the American people. Almost every day we are presented with further proof why he should not be our president. From 9/11, to WMDs, to Iraq, to Katrina-- the reasons are many and obvious. We need to impeach him NOW.
The only point that should be discussed is-- "IMPEACH BUSH NOW!" We need to pound this point over and over again. It should be mentioned wherever possible, and it should not stop until the mainstream media and all politicans realize that we, the people, will not stand for gross negligence, willful and wanton misconduct, nor the utter lies, any longer.
Send an email (prideof55@myway.com) once you are on board and you will be added to the ON BOARD list
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://impeachbushcoalition.blogspot.com
www.afterdowningstreet.org
Note: Impeach Bush was the #1 searched phrase on Technocrati.com
for three days straight.
FEMA "DISAPPEARING" BODIES IN NOLA?
Skeletons (Real Ones) in Bush's Closet
There are some very troubling developments regarding the collecting of
bodies in NOLA. The company hired to do the collection is Kenyon
International. Kenyon International is owned by SCI, a major Bush
contributor. SCI was involved in a scandal called "Funeralgate" wherein
thousands of
bodies were improperly and fraudulently disposed of in mass graves of in
violation of numerous State and Federal laws on numreous occasions. Rather
than prosecute the company, the then Governor George W Bush and and his
campaign manager and future FEMA director Joe Allbaugh at least seemingly helped the
company engage in a coverup. Both Bush and Allbaugh were named as defendants
in a lawsuit regarding the issue.
The fact FEMA and the Bush Administration seem to be intent on blocking
media coverage of the collection of bodies, and unsubstantiated rumours of "mishandling" of bodies in NOLA already circulating on the internet, a charge on National TV by Jefferson Parish President that FEMA cut their emergency communications, reports by very reputable Journalists such as Brian Williams that officials were pointing guns at members of the media in a blatant attempt to intimidate them, and numerous reports by Ham radio operators that emergency frequencies were being jammed from somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico should lead to great concern among the public. Is the Government planning to cover up the number of dead in NOLA as they covered up the Abu Ghraib scandal?
One thing is certain: reporters for the Dallas times caught Police and
National Guardsmen red handed in this video:
telling the media they were rounding up dogs to be collected by the ASPCA
and other animal groups, when in fact they were caught "exterminating" them
on camera. If the government will lie about that, what else will they lie
about?
The American people deserve to know the truth. The collection of American
bodies should not be farmed out to a Bush political crony, one which he
seemingly helped cover up the "mishandling" of bodies...a felony. SCI's
criminal practice of "mishandling" bodies should preclude it from engaging
in or profiting from the recovery of American bodies anywhere, but
particularly in NOLA...the outcome of the investigation is too important to
leave to a company with such a tainted past, particulary one that is so
incestuously connected to George W Bush, and particularly when the Bush
administration has so much to lose from an accurate body count.
The US media must be allowed to report on a crucial element of one of the
gravest governmental crises in American history. Congress should demand that
Kenyon International be FIRED immediately from any and all recovery efforts
in NOLA, and send an independent oversight group to be present in NOLA and
the surrounding area during the body recovery to insure the American people
are not being duped. These are not hanging chads, these are American
citizens.The present leadership within FEMA and the Bush administrationhave
proven themselves unworthy of American trust.
Following is a list of links detailing some very disturbing allegations
involving GW Bush, Joe Allbaugh, and the company
entrusted by the American people to recover the dead abandoned by the Bush
administration after hurricane Katrina...are you listening America?
Please dont just read this info, do something about it!
Contact Congress and the National Media to launch a formal inquiry, help
disseminate this info on the blogs. Its time to bring back accountbility to
our government.
Permission to use this post for any reason is granted Universally without
charge or obligation.
www.apfn.net
________________________________________________-____
UPDATE:
BLACKWATER MERCENARIES DEPLOYED IN NOLA
The same firm that provided "security and consulting" services at in Iraq
is now in NOLA. Among its employees, BLACKWATER has recruited war criminals
from Pinochets Chile.
Dangerous coyboys "deputized" to arrest or shoot American citizens in NOLA
All payed for by you and me:
Homeland security says they're not there, but their website says otherwise:
__________________________
Impeachment Proceedings
The Santa Cruz City Council on Tuesday became the nation's first local
government to ask Congress to look into impeaching President Bush on charges
he deceived the American public about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and
has used the Sept. 11 attacks as an excuse to crush civil rights.
In a 6-1 vote, the council decided to send a letter to members of the House
Judiciary Committee asking the panel to investigate the president.
www.dailykos.com
______________________________
The Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration writes: "Bush has squandered the lives and health of thousands of people. He has run through hundreds of billions of borrowed dollars. He has lost America's reputation and its allies. With barbaric torture and destruction of our civil liberty, he has stripped America of its inherent goodness and morality. And now Bush has lost America's largest port and 25 percent of its oil supply...What will it take for Americans to reestablish accountability in their government? Bush has got away with lies and an illegal war of aggression, with outing CIA agents, with war crimes against Iraqi civilians, with the horrors of the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo torture centers, and now with the destruction of New Orleans. What disaster will next spring from Bush's incompetence?"
________________________________
To the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility." - George W. Bush
Impeach Bush Now!
elandslide.org
House Committee to Vote on Resolution of Inquiry on 9/14
A Resolution of Inquiry into Bush's war lies (H Res 375) now has 70 co-sponsors. It will come to a vote in the House International Relations Commitee on September 14th, where it has the co-sponsorship of most of the Democrats and one Republican. To pass, it needs all the Democrats and three Republicans. The more Congress Members not on the committee who co-sponsor, the more likely some committee members are to vote yes. A substantial debate on the issue is expected. The committee meets in Room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, at 10:30 a.m. this Wednesday.
Email Your Congress Member
www.democrats.com
Phone and Fax Your Congress Member
www.usalone.com
Or call switchboard tollfree at (888) 818-6641
Fill Out Feedback Form
www.afterdowningstreet.org
Here are Current Co-Sponsors
thomas.loc.gov@@@P
If passed, H Res 375 will require the White House and the State Department to "transmit all information relating to communication with officials of the United Kingdom between January 1, 2002, and October 16, 2002, relating to the policy of the United States with respect to Iraq."
We have the Downing Street Memos from the UK. This Resolution, if passed, will demand similar evidence from the US. The Downing Street Memos strongly suggest that the President knowlingly deceived Congress in his March 18th formal letter on why the war was necessary: he cited a threat to the US from Iraq and a need to go after nations behind the 9-11 attacks. If the President was honest about his reasons for war, H Res 375 is his chance to clear his name. The majority of Americans believe he lied (Washington Post/ABC poll).
Lots More Info is Here:
www.afterdowningstreet.org
When you call your Congress Member:
Please ask for the Legislative Director or the person in charge of Iraq or foreign policy. If they tell you that the representative will not be co-sponsoring H. Res. 375, ask for the reasons. Also try to determine what it would take for them to be a co-sponsor. If your Congressional representative is a Republican, mention that Rep. Jim Leach, Iowa, is co-sponsoring the ROI (Resolution of Inquiry.)
Ask for a fax # and / or email address to send copies of the Resolution of Inquiry and the actual Downing Street Minutes for the Representative or staffer(s) to look at, if need be.Then quickly fax or email these materials to the proper address or number. We can't assume your Congressperson is aware of these materials, so here they are.
ROI: a one-page PDF of the Resolution of Inquiry you can fax or email. www.afterdowningstreet.org
Downing Street Memos: www.afterdowningstreet.org
We cannot thank you enough for your willingness to help get Rep. Barbara Lee's H. Res. 375. passed out of the I.R. Committee. Your efforts really count!
Yours for Peace and Accountability,
The AfterDowningStreet.org Coalition
9/15 Hearing and Rally on Ending the War
On Thursday, September 15, in Washington, D.C., Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey will hold a hearing on exit strategies for Iraq. A coalition of organizations demanding an end to the war will hold a rally afterwards at 5 p.m. in front of the White House. Please ask your Congressmember and Senators to take part in both events. Email them here:
tinyurl.com
Or call the switchboard toll free: (888) 818-6641
And please come to these events yourself if you can (but remember that we are building toward a mass mobilization on September 24; if you can only come to DC once, come then).
Rally updates and flyers:
HEARING: Thursday, September 15, 2005, 10 a.m. 1 p.m.
WHERE: 122 Cannon House Office Building
WITNESSES: U.S. Senator Max Cleland, former member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, former head of the Veterans Administration and triple amputee from his military service in the Vietnam War; General Joseph Hoar (Ret. USMC), former Commander in Chief of U.S. Central Command; Ambassador David Mack, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for the Near East, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Arab Emirates, and current Vice President of the Middle East Institute; Dr. Ken Katzman, Middle East analyst and Iraq specialist at the Congressional Research Service; Anas Shallal, an Iraqi-American and founder of Iraqi-Americans for Peaceful Alternatives.
Both Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate have been invited. Some 25 Democratic Members are expected, and several Republican Members, including Rep. Walter Jones Jr. (N.C.), have indicated they will participate for at least a portion of the hearing.
Rep. Woolsey's Advisory:
woolsey.house.gov
Sept. 6 Article in Roll Call:
www.afterdowningstreet.org
RALLY: at Lafayette Square Park (in front of White House) at 5 p.m. ET on September 15, 2005, sponsored by Progressive Democrats of America, After Downing Street, Code Pink, Peace Action, Democrats.com, and Democracy Rising.
SPEAKERS: Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey and other Congress Members; Gold Star Families for Peace Member Tia Steele; Founder of American Families United, Gold Star Mother, Member of Military Families Speak Out, and star of "Farenheit 9-11" Lila Lipscomb; Veterans for Peace Board Member Ellen Barfield; Family member of U.S. soldier serving in Iraq Jawaid Khan; Co-Founder of Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) Tom Hayden; Code Pink Co-Founder and United for Peace and Justice organizer Gael Murphy; Peace Action Organizing and Policy Director Paul Kawika Martin; U.S. Labor Against the War Co-Founder Gene Bruskin; Center on Conscience and War Executive Director J.E. McNeil; PDA Board Member and After Downing Street Co-Founder John Bonifaz; Pastor of Pasadena, Calif., All Saints Church Ed Bacon; PDA Executive Director and After Downing Street Co-Founder Tim Carpenter; PDA Board Member and After Downing Street Co-Founder David Swanson; Democracy Rising Director and likely U.S. Senate candidate from Maryland Kevin Zeese; Pacifica Radio Washington Bureau Chief Verna Avery Brown; Co-Founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity Ray McGovern; PDA Board Member and President & CEO of Hip Hop Caucus Rev. Lennox Yearwood Jr; diplomat who resigned in opposition to Iraq war, and Camp Casey coordinator Ann Wright; Research Fellow, Institute for Policy Studies, Erik Leaver, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg.
____________
Also the same day, a coalition of organizations will hand in to Congress a petition for an exit strategy. See http://www.peoplespetition.org (Note that not all sponsors of and participants in the rally are participants in or supporters of the petition or the hearings.)
Information on mass mobilization September 24-26:
www.unitedforpeace.org
Under the U.S. Constitution, the President is subject to removal from office by Impeachment Trial and is still subject to federal criminal prosecution for criminal offenses.
"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to INDICTMENT, TRIAL, JUDGMENT AND PUNISHMENT, ACCORDING TO LAW." (Emphasis added.) U.S. Constitution, Article One, Section 3.
who can be impeached?
members.cruzio.com
Links to National Publications Related to Impeachment:
Surprised? You shouldn't be. This was just a small disaster compared what may be down the pike for us what with e Bush making the world safer for terrorists (and making more of them). How will things look when a nuke does worse, how will outlying areas and their police handle burnt and radio-active or biologically contaminated refugees? And when the Balkanization of America happens, who of you would want to be a non-Mormon in Utah??? Chew on that a while. We call ourselves civilized, but add a lil' fear and we are strictly Third World. Keep believing in the myth, keep sipping the Kool-Aid folks. The ones who are 'to protect and serve' are no more than your worst fears, when fear gets to them...
Best regards,
H.
One question to the two paramedics: WHY DID YOU NOT EVACUATE ???
I understand that the were in a convention, flew in, then could not re-book their flights. But what about a TRAIN??? There is an Amtrack station in downtown New Orleans with at least 1 train a day toward Baton Rouge and Lafayette, and at least one train to Atlanta. Amtrack themselves said their train with 900 seats left almost empty the day before the storm. (!)
If you see a category 4 heading your way, you evacuate - any which way you can. I have lived in the New Orleans area for 14 years and that is my rule. These two paramedics could have saved themselves a lot of trouble dealing with our law enforcement.
Can someone explain why the BLACK PANTHER PARTY, the thousands of Black Secret Societies and AKU's, the Black Ouchita and other independent (THE TYPE OF PEOPLE THE 'INDIVIDUALISTS' LOVE) were the ones who prevented a CIVIL WAR FROM TAKING PLACE IN THE GULF?
THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY AND VARIOUS GROUPS OF BLACK NATIONALISTS SHOWED MORE GUTS AND AMERICANISM THAN MANY OF THESE FOLKS WHO SAT LISTENING TO JUDASES LIKE O'REALLY, LIMBLOW-HARD, SCARFACEBOROUGH, SAVARAGE 'THE JUDAS' MISSY ANNE unCooltarbaby, Squeal (like a pig) Bore AND ALL THESE FALSE JUDASES AND PSEUDO-CONSERVATIVE PROPAGANDISTS.
The Black Panther Party and the old Black Secret Societies with origins in Nigeria, Congo and Angola, (around since before the Louisiana Terrritory was stolen from the Blacks and illegally 'sold' for three cents an acre by the French invaders) were instrumental in preventing a catastrophie from occurring in New Orleans, particularly when 'plants' and provocators were trying to deliberately cause mayhem and confusion.
hear all about it (JOE MADISON SHOW 'POWER 169' www.xmradio.com 7am to 10 am New York Time)
THEY SHOWED RESTRAINT DESPITE THE PROVOCATION.
Read all about it.
www.sfbayview.com
BLACK PANTHER PARTY HELPS PREVENT CIVIL WAR IN NEW ORLEANS
www.sfbayview.com<>
ITS NOT THE IDEA OF LETTING PEOPLE IN THRU THE GRETNA AREA BUT LOOK WHAT THEY WERE DOINING IN NEW ORLEANS. SETTING FIRES AND LOTTING. AND I TOTAL BELIVE IT IS ALRIGHT TO TAKE FOOD ARE WATER IF YOU ARE IN NEED. BUT TO BURN BUISNESS DOWN TO THE GROUND AND STEAL THINGS THATS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU LIVE. WITH NO WATER TO PUT FIRES OUT JUST THINK WHAT MIGHT OF HAPPEN IF THE SAME THING WOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN ON THE WEST BANK OF THE RIVER.AS MEMBER OF THE CITY OF GRETNA I THINK THE GRETNA POLICE DID A GOOD JOB AND GENRAL. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE. BUT WERE DO YOU LIVE DO YOU STILL HAVE A JOB A PLACE TO SHOP A HOME TO LIVE IN. ALSO LET PUT SOME OF THE BLAME BACK ON THE OFFICALS IN NEW ORLEANS. THEY NEW WHAT THE WORST CASE WOULD BE IF THE STORM WAS GOING TO HIT. AND LET S PUT THE BLAME ON THE FEDS
I thought we were in a time where people were sceptical of things that they see on TV. I know for a fact that what has been shown in the national press about Grena is absolute crap. The fact is that Gretna commandeered 3 buses and evacuated 5,500 people with officers driving the buses who had never done so before throughout the night. When finally more and more people kept coming and they were running out of fuel, much less not having any food, water, shelter for them, and a dry dock that had travelled two miles up the river to lodge itself in the levee in Gretna and spill oil over the levee into the river and into Gretna (which by the way all of the officials were afraid of a breach in the levee, and the drydock is still not extracted because they are unsure how to do it), the Gretna Police along with 2 other agencies closed the bridge. By the way, Gretna was not high ground. And the convention center was not flooded, in fact, to this day, it has never been flooded. And if those people had food and water, they were better off where they were, then coming over to Gretna where there was none. By the way, why should New Orleans a city of almost a million try to use a town of 18,000 to evacuate it's people? And Gretna is not even the way out of New Orleans. I evacuated and had to go through New Orleans to do it. You don't get out of New Orleans by going to Gretna, you go the other way. But sense alot of people obviously don't know the geography of Louisiana they don't realize this. Maybe before you express your outrage you should try to look up the facts. I am soooo proud of Gretna, and the Chief. As the parish president say, Arthur Lawson saved the Westbank. Thank you to all officers from out of town who are here helping us.
you guys are morons who know nothing about the real story. you need to watch less of gerldo holding babies and research more the truth.
Facts:
1) The day before the bridge debacle Jefferson Parish (which contains gretna, the first city over the bridge) declared all of its shelters were full and it was completely emptied of resources.
2) If you want to leave the city, crossing the bridge into Gretna only brings you closer to the ocean. The way out of the city is the opposite way up the interstate. Get a map. Go to google and look at the sat pictures.
3) the looting was out of control and all those people had waiting for them at most was a few bars of junk food because the power had been out for days - everyhting was rotten. then, as they did most other parts of the city, they would have looted gretna to high hell because the new orleans officials did a pathetic job of serving them.
I worked for the new orleans gov't through contracts and eventually resigned because it was a joke. every dumbass and minister stealing every dollar they could.
before all you stupid hippies talk out your ass about what you know, why don't you ask the mayor why he let 200 school buses sit and get flood. ask him him why he declined a free invite from amtrack to evacuate people.
hell, ask him why he blew a few million on high tech parking meters only months before the storm when the city can't even keep it's streets from having potholes everywhere. Ask mayor Nagin why his CTO is fucking his interns and throwing expensive parties for them with gov't money.
i've lived in san fran and LA and i'm tired of you dumbass know-it-all-while-knowing-nothing idiots yelling all this crap when you know nothing. shut your hole and go collect your trust fund.
bob
People were evacuating New Orleans over the bridge to Gretna. They went down 90, then west, and over to Harahan. Mayor Nagin said the bridge to Gretna was the only open evacuation route available to them.
According to Mayor Nagin, people had to evacuate by crossing the bridge, heading south and west on 90 to Harahan. It was the only available route.
I am so proud of Chief Lawson and the Gretna Police Dept. We are a small commuity, we do not need the crime from New Orleans. I am glad the world can now see what is going on in New Orleans. We do not need looters, robers, murders, and drug dealers in Gretna. Gretna is the safest city in La. and that is the way I would like it to stay. Call us what ever you want, we like Gretna the way it is, we do not want New Orlean's crime or there criminals. Who ever don't like it kiss our gretna ass. Chief keep up the good work, you have the citizens behind you.
For all you people who think we are races in Gretna, please leave your address, we will be glad to bus all the criminals to your home town. Lets see how you would like your house robbed, or your daughter raped, or you house burned down.New Orleans was a sewer before the hurrican, this is the way it will get cleaned up. I pray it will be a better city now. You people just don't have any idea what was going on there. I love New Orleans, I just don't like the way it was. You people in cities like Houston will be sorry you took those people in, just watch the crime rate in Houston climb, and the other cities that took them in.
I am sorry for all of the lives that were lost in New Orleans. However, I am pleased by the way chief Lawson handled the situation. The people from New Orleans need to look at this from our point of view. What if the shoe had been on the other foot? What if the Westbank was the one with the high crime rate,and New Orleans had the low crime rate like we do? Would they have wanted all of that pouring into their safe haven? I bet not. Nagin told his people to GET OUT.!! It is not our fault that most of his people did not head his warning!!! The ones that did get across the bridge? Look at what they shot at the firemen putting out fires, which by the way, they started. They shot at the police, which, by the way, were were trying to help them!! What in the hell makes you think that we want, or need,that kind of bull shit in our community? All of the people in N.O. were not bad. However,the bad overtook the good, unfortuntely. Stop looking at this as racial. It's about crime, and, it's not our fault that 90% of N.O. crime, is commited by black people. So, when you want to point fingers and blame someone, blame your own damn people!! Hats off to chief Arthur Lawson for keeping at least one side of the river safe and secure!! To hell with all who disagree. That's why we're called the BESTBANK!!!
Boycott Gretna
I pledge to never set foot or spend money with any business within the boundaries of your town, and to spread the word of what your police force did through internet discussion groups, blogs, and by any other means.
Nagin told his people to GET OUT.!! It is not our fault that most of his people did not head his warning!
Around 5,000 residents of Gretna didn't evacuate before the storm, according to the Los Angeles Times.
In a future disaster, if a similar number becomes trapped there, should surrounding cities block your escape?
First of all, N.O. was under a MANDATORY EVACUATION!!! Jefferson Parish was not. JP is on way higher ground than N.O. The people of NO knew that they lived in a "fish bowl". They had plenty of time to get out knowing the danger of the rising waters that were coming!!! However, they chose to stay. As far as future disasters? Had it been us flooding, and supposibly trapped, we sure wouldn't have headed for a city that sits lower than we do!! DUUUHHH!!!! People keep saying that across the CCC, into Gretna, was the only way out for N.O. residents. That's bull shit!! They had a way out days before the storm hit. They should have LISTENED!!! As far as BOYCOTTING Gretna. You do what you want to do, it doesn't bother us.See, on the Westbank, we take care of our own. We secure and protect what we have worked all our lives for. We have a police force that understands this and respects this. So, in turn, they do their JOB to see that it continues to be that way. A lot of you people want to condemn our way of handling the situation. Obviously, they have not lived here all of their lives as I HAVE!! If you could look at the stuation through MY eyes, then you would see this picture in a whole new way!! Maybe if N.O. would take notes from us, it could be a better place to live!!
See, on the Westbank, we take care of our own.
Actually, you don't. Your mayor reached out to other cities for relief assistance after the storm.
What I meant by that was that our police officers were undeniably doing their jobs by protecting their people's safety. As for N.O.? How can you start to help people who don't attempt to help themselves? You say it's a matter of humanity and life, not property or possessions. OK, so what do you expect from us when it was our lives at stake? I mean, they were shooting at our policemen & firemen. What makes you think that they wouldn't have started shooting us? Remember this point: The blockade didn't occur until the crime started crossing over into our community. So our police force did what they had to do. Children being raped, drug addicts going through withdrawels, people being shot, looters taking everything EXCEPT food, etc., etc. No thank you, we will pass on all of that shit. We don't live in N.O. because we don't want all of that, yet, you expect us to invite it into our lives? No way!!!
For all of you that don't live here, you don't have a clue as to the situation here. I don't expect to change anyone's mind. You believe what you want to believe just as Shep Smith/Geraldo told the story they wanted to tell, not necessarily the whole, unbiased truth. If you want to believe everything is strictly as portrayed on TV news, I pity you when a disaster the magnitude of Katrina arrives in your backyard.
I have enormous sympathy for the working, disabled, elderly poor of New Orleans; none whatsoever for the worthless poor.
I am sure many of you recoiled in horror that I could label anyone worthless. As I said earlier, you don't live here. Just to put the final nail in my coffin for all you abysmally ignorant liberals, I am off to put up signs in our neighborhood commending our police, fire and city officials for a job well done!
STORIES I DIDN'T SEE ON TV
A residence that was broken into only for food and water.
Hillary Clinton proclaiming her intent to build 1000 units of Section 8 housing in Westchester County, NY to help the under-privileged refugees/evacuees/temporarily displaced persons from New Orleans.
Ditto for Teddy K. and John K. in Massachusetts.
Rogers Cadenhead and like minded people petitioning their local zoning boards to allow them to put apartments in their backyard for the above mentioned people.
Re:Mike: Well said!! They just don't understand. By the way, I didn't see those headlines either! POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK? Ummm. I wonder!!!
It seems to me, that there are lot of opinions out here that do not have any real proof as to what actually happened at the time of this incident. We seem to have become a community that lives for rumors. I for one, am going to let the smoke settle and see what was exactly said. I sat with one of the Gretna representatives yesterday and saw a video of mr. Nagin telling his refuges that there were buses, food, and safe housing centers on the west bank of the river. Unfortunately, while he was making up this fairy tale, he forgot to let the west bank know. I have talked to Gretna policemen, Jefferson Parish policemen, and National guardsment that were at the site and their account differs quite a bit from what I see on the media. Why were there no interviews from the actual law enforcement participants? After watching some of the "reporting" that the media has put forth, I will regard any future information with a grain of salt, or treat it as I would any other piece of fiction.
I was there and a resident of Gretna you can second guess and bitch about what should have been done but the Cheif was doing his job, protecting the citizens and property of Gretna. Where were the New Orleans Police? they were looting Wal-mart. Get your facts straight before repeating B*llS*it. The media has had it all wrong from the beginning. And all you second guessing mindless idiots have no clue as to what was going on.
The whole issue here is that everyone is trying to make this out to be a racial thing. No one has ever said anything about color, or gender, etc., etc., The non-knowers are the ones that keep addressing N.O. people as "THE BLACKS"!!! Crime has no clor, or gender. It's just purely crime. We have enough of our own dealings with crime over here to want to take on another cities criminals. THAT, is why our police force is getting so complimented. N.O., in general, is a great place to party and have a good time. However, I would never choose to live there myself. And what a lot of these non-knowers don't know, is that a lot of money that the businesses make in N.O., comes from tourist and WESTBANKERS!!! What about the people in St. Bernard, Bay St. Louis, Waveland, and all the other places that were impacted by this storm? I guess a lot of those people perished because they were BLACK??? I think not. The person that N.O. people and the non-knowers should be boycotting, or condemning, is Mayor Ray Nagin. He is the one who told those people that there was all kinds of help on the other side of the river, and there wasn't. It was like he was telling them that there was a light at the end of a tunnel. Well, guess what? We had no lights, no water, no food, and no help for ourselves for a while. We had to do what we had to do to survive, and that's what we did. There's no way we had any resources to take on thousands of other people.The media is a monster. And what Mr. Walters said is true: "THERE'S A LOT OF OPINIONS OUT HERE THAT DO NOT HAVE ANY REAL PROOF AS TO WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED"!!!! So my advice to people is this, get the facts FIRST, before you start to put the blame on others. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE, BUT FIRST IT WILL MAKE YOU MISERABLE.!!! Words to live by.
The truth will set you free, but the people of Gretna, La., won't.
I understand why several people from Gretna have made such a passionate defense of your police chief's actions. It was your homes and businesses being saved from the worst elements of New Orleans.
However, 99.9 percent of the people trying to get out of New Orleans were not in that group -- just a bunch of good people caught in a bad situation. Surely you must recognize that by now. The wheelchair-bound 61-year-old being pushed by his sons across the bridge was not going to rob you.
Was it really acceptable to block the Mississippi River from being crossed by thousands of evacuees? Why should one town of 17,000 be able to make that decision by virtue of being closest to the bridge?
O.k. I understand what your saying. However, if we would have let the handicapped and ill in, then we would have been condemned once again and called predjusice for that. And you know it. If you let some in, then your entitled to let all in. All, includes the criminal minded ones. Looka t it hyperthetically, and you'll see that I'm right.
Rogers, you are a typical liberal. You believe what you want to believe, the truth as told by Geraldo, Shep, LA Times, NY Times, et al. These stories have only the vaguest resemblance to reality.
Just taking on a few specific points:
"99.9 percent of the people trying to get out of New Orleans were not in that group"
You got that information WHERE? Maybe Geraldo handed out a questionnaire to everyone crossing the bridge???
"one town of 17,000 ... being closest to the bridge"
ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! There are two exits before getting to Gretna, both high and dry including one next to Oakwood Mall where at least several thousand people could have had shelter from the weather. Unfortunately, some of those upstanding citizens you are so concerned about, promptly looted it and set fires, making the ONLY possible shelter of any size within walking distance of the bridge uninhabitable. The City of Gretna has NO auditorium or other building capable of housing hundreds of people much less thousands.
OTHER IGNORED AND/OR UNREPORTED FACTS
Gretna had NO food and water stockpiles to give these people. It has been reported that approximately 5,000 of Gretna's 17,000, almost 1 out 3, residents stayed behind. Exactly what do you think was going to happen when these refugees started breaking into homes looking for whatever? In the same situation, please tell me you would meekly invite them in and give up your last water and food! If so, I am coming to your home should Rita turn this way! The truth is, there would have been a blood bath! As hard as it may be for you to understand, a very large percentage of the die hard, individualist that stayed behind, believe in guns and self-preservation! If for no other reason, you should be praising Arthur Lawson for preventing a very large loss of life!
The Gretna PD transported somewhere between 4,000 and 6,000 refugees in commandeered school buses from the bridge to the I-10 West/ Clearview Parkway area where they could hopefully, find further transportation west. They continued this operation until they ran out of fuel. It was only after this and the Oakwood fire they felt it necessary to close the bridge. The Gretna PD and a city of 17,000 did more for the people trapped in New Orleans during the first few days after the storm than their own mayor, the State of Louisiana and FEMA combined.
The ONLY sporting goods store and gun shops in the GNO area NOT looted were in Gretna. Would you have been happy with another 1000+ guns on the street? I guess that is no real concern for your liberal little heart since you are 600 or so miles away!
The ONLY Walgreen Drug store NOT looted in the GNO area was in Gretna. Imagine that, people that actually needed drugs could get them relatively quickly after the storm!
I'm judging the situation by what your police chief has said in the press, Mike -- he ordered the bridge blocked to protect property in Gretna.
You can make a strong argument that the situation on the West Bank would have gotten worse than it did with the influx of thousands of evacuees. I am not disputing that the situation was scary, with the arson at your mall and the wide reports of violence in New Orleans.
But you still haven't explained why the interests of a town of 17,000 people are more important than the interests of a city of 400,000. An evacuation route out of a water-locked city is a matter of life-and-death. If you allow a suburb surrounding a major city to block access during a disaster, evacuation could become impossible.
If the Gretna blockade becomes a matter for investigation, I suspect we'll find that your police chief had no legal right to block that highway, which is either a state or federal road.
1. Why were New Orleans residents shooting at rescue workers in helicopters and boats, and firing on the contractors who were trying to fix the levee?
2. Why were so many thugs shooting and looting and raping and murdering on the streets of New Orleans and at the Superdome when a natural disaster hit town?
3. Is it true that the thugs who were shooting and looting and raping and murdering on the streets of New Orleans and at the Superdome were just doing what they do all time?
4. Why were virtually all of the looters and murderers and rapists and carjackers black?
5. Since it is a well-known fact that blacks can only be the victims, but never the perpetrators of racism, should we damn as racists the white and Asian foreign tourists who said they were being terrorized in the Superdome and on the streets of New Orleans based on the color of their skin, ignore their complaints, "disappear" alleged black-on-white and black-on-Asian crimes committed in the aftermath of Katrina, and arrest the tourists for racial insensitivity and hate crimes?
6. Why didn't New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin use the 500 buses he had at his disposal to evacuate New Orleans residents before Katrina hit town?
7. Is President Bush getting so roundly criticized by the media and black political activists for not taking over rescue efforts sooner, because he is a white, heterosexual, Republican male, whereas Mayor Nagin is a black Democrat and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco is a female Democrat?
8. Although thousands of National Guard troops have been in New Orleans for several days, how come we have not heard of any of them shooting looters or violent criminals?
9. Why have we heard instead of New Orleans thugs beating National Guardspersons over the heads with pipes, shooting said National Guardspersons, and said National Guardspersons running away from said attackers?
10. Are the National Guardspersons' rifles loaded with live ammunition?
11. Is it possible that, as with during and following the 1992 Los Angeles race riots, thousands of National Guardspersons are marching around New Orleans with unloaded weapons?
12. Had Pres. Bush, in the face of Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco's incompetence, taken over rescue efforts days ago, would the President now be enduring the same criticisms he is now receiving, or worse criticisms?
13. How can federal authorities such as FEMA take over the role of first-responders, as the attacks on the feds have implied they should have, if the police and fire persons are all locals, and it takes days for FEMA to arrive on the scene?
14. If everything to do with New Orleans' troubles is a federal affair, should not the federal government put the city in federal receivership, and render Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco powerless, regarding the city's management?
15. Should we ignore the New York Times' years-long, successful opposition (including just last spring) to the feds spending billions of taxpayer dollars to fix New Orleans' levees, in light of the newspaper's current charges of federal malfeasance for not having fixed the levees?
"he ordered the bridge blocked to protect property in Gretna."
Arthur does not deny saying that but it was a specific phrase extracted from a much larger discussion; something the media is VERY good at doing when it suits their purpose. Also, he did not sleep for the first 3 days after the storm hit and only sporadically thereafter. I do know that he is so incensed at the way the media has twisted the situation, he swears that he will never do another national TV interview unless it is live so they cannot selectively edit his words.
"why the interests of a town of 17,000 people are more important than the interests of a city of 400,000."
We are not talking about the interest of a "city of 400,000", we are talking about 1,000-6,000 refugees depending on exactly who's numbers you believe. Of the 4,000-6,000 people the Gretna PD moved, a significant number were carrying weapons. It was FAR greater than the .1% "bad apples" you alluded to earlier. They did not have time to "pat down" everyone they put on the buses; the weapons confiscated were the obvious ones. There were undoubtedly others.
"I suspect we'll find that your police chief had no legal right to block that highway"
It is a state highway and I have no idea as to the "legality" of the decision under marshal law. I do know that while Arthur Lawson is credited/reviled for the decision, it was done with the consent and assistance of other law enforcement authorities, some of which have since denied their participation/agreement.
It is very easy to second guess someone after plenty of sleep when presented with selective information. When you are on the ground with limited sleep, limited communications and being asked to let 1,000 -6,000 people start roaming the streets of your city after removing a significant number of weapons from a similar group, I believe he was 100% correct in his decision. You must also remember that by the time of the decision, there was a mall burning just outside Gretna and he was also being told "the Calvary is coming". Even in hindsight, I think the decision saved a number of lives.
I am just dying for someone to point out one thing that isn't true about this article. It is just sad that African Americans will jump behind the race band-wagon. African Americans need to wake up. Instead of blaming Whitey you need to blame your corrupt Democrat Leaders who pretend to be on the side of African Americans.
Race Baiting as New Orleans Sinks It's a black thing
The black mayor of New Orleans, a perpetually corrupt, crime ridden and impoverished city 20 feet below sea level, surrounded by an ocean, a lake and the Mississippi River, tepidly suggests his citizens evacuate as a giant hurricane approaches. For those with no means to leave, he does nothing. The white President of the United States begs him to evacuate for four days. A hundred thousand mostly black residents choose to stay. The massive storm promptly becomes the deadliest catastrophe in American history, flooding the city, killing thousands.
Meanwhile, over 10,000 rescue workers, mostly white, leave comfortable homes, jobs and families, stream in from all across America four days in advance. But when the storm turns at the last minute, rescuers become victims. Over 9,000 square miles and 200 miles of coastline over 4 states become devastated. Communication is cut off. All utilities are ruined. Thousands of roadways are laid to waste. Nearly every vehicle is swept away, including trucks, planes and boats. New Orleans becomes virtually impassable.
Undaunted, the white rescue workers use whatever means available to help save the poor black residents.
They are greeted by gunfire.
Thousands of remarkably well-armed black people took over the city, wantonly raping, pillaging and murdering. They carjack rescue convoys, shoot at rescuers, levee repairmen, and even helicopters performing rescue missions. The operation is halted dead in its tracks.
And for this, white people are being labeled racist.
It didn't take long for the parade of race-whore vermin to rampage across the television screen, accusing white Americans of racial lollygagging. Rev. Calvin Butts declared, "I think a lot of it has to do with race and class." Jesse Jackson bluntly accused President Bush of racism. NBC's live telethon for the victims of Hurricane Katrina features rapper Kanye West declaring, "George Bush doesn't care about black people."
Mayor Ray Nagin, who could have prevented much of the tragedy by merely ordering an evacuation two days earlier and deploying his 1,000 school bus fleet, began publicly swearing at everyone else but himself, particularly for not providing instant security. Really! Can you imagine if George Bush had clairvoyantly placed 20,000 soldiers in New Orleans the day the storm hit? Every white person in America knows Nagin, the Congressional Black Caucus, Rev. Jackson, the NAACP, and every black race hustler (but I repeat myself) in America would have shrieked "Racism!!!" Not sure? Kanye West already screamed " ... they've given them permission to go down and shoot us!"
Its been a century-long modus operandi for every black liberal politician: Blame Whitey.
And for years, white America surrendered the race card trump, placating racial rabble-rousers with over 10 trillion dollars of social programs. Not enough. They created racial preference laws. Not enough. They laid every guilt trip possible on white people. Not enough.
Well, not this time.
See, Whitey wised up. We know black people cause modern Black America's great plagues. Newt Gingrich doesn't run around knocking up 14-year-old black girls. Black men do. Ronald Reagan didn't gang bang and murder in the hood. Black men do. Rush Limbaugh doesn't coax black people into government servitude. Black liberals do. And certainly, William F. Buckley never advised black people to speak English like Jar Jar Binks. Black people do.
And in New Orleans, George W. Bush didn't ignore evacuation warnings, abandon poor black people trying to leave, loot the city and shoot rescuers. Black people did. Black people caused and could have prevented this entire tragedy, and when white people tried to help, black people literally tried to kill them.
That is a fact.
So, Black America, turn down the volume knob and listen carefully. Hear that? It's the sound of White America heaving a sigh of indifference.
To be certain, this isn't an indictment of all black people, though its certainly a wake-up slap to a large black majority who listen to these cretins. It is, however, a direct accusation against liberal race prostitutes who dominate popular black leadership, create misery and mayhem in the black community for self-aggrandizing personal power, and then detestably blame White America, insisting we don't understand the plight of black people.
The only thing White America doesn't understand is why black leaders sell their fellow black brethren down the river, sometimes literally, and why black people keep buying the ticket. This week provided a disgusting example. After creating their own tragedy, black people across America had a magnificent opportunity to convert adversity into compassionate national unity. Instead, they chose Lord of the Flies anarchy.
I suppose, as they say, it's a black thing.
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Hey Rodgers, why don't you move to New Orleans and get a first hand experince of the so called "Big Easy". I am sure you can find a very nice Section 8 home there. Before you sit there and bash our police chief and our elected officals, come and walk in our shoes first. Come and see what it is like to like next to a crime infested city.Most of the crimes commited in Gretna are done by residents of New Orleans.We the citizens of Gretna elected our police chief because we know that he will protect this city no matter what it takes. So until you are ready to move from Jacksonville and walk in our shoes, go and find some other city to pick on. You can say whatever you want about us, we will still stand pround and tall.
I see a lot of partisan and racist comments here. I suppose you could paint any tragedy with a racist brush, and there are certainly actions by many in the wake of Katrina that truly are motivated by racism.
But to describe the actions of the Gretna Police force as simply as "racist" is an oversimplification. All racism aside, the basic fact is this: There was a huge calamity resulting in thousands of people who were needlessly suffering, and trapped in an utter hellhole. When trying to leave the city, they were fired upon, preventing them from leaving.
The Gretna officials have made it worse in trying to defend their actions. The police chief states he did the right thing, and would do it again. City council members supported the action. Citizens interviewed on NPR praised the police for closing the bridge. Their justification? Nobody in New Orleans, FEMA, or other branches of the federal government warned them, or involved them in the decision making process, so they were unprepared to take care of evacuees.
I am sorry that the city of Gretna was snubbed in this way. Were they guilty of racism? Maybe. But I think they are mainly just lacking in basic human decency. Just like the looters in New Orleans, the people involved in blocking the bridge away from New Orleans represent the worst face of humanity. When faced with the challenge of thousand of people that needed help they could have chosen to rise to the occasion and help their fellow human beings; instead they shot at them. I do hope that Gretna's reaction is not representative of what most people would do. If so, it is a sad commentary on humanity.
The white President of the United States begs him to evacuate for four days.
This is not true. Four days before it hit, Katrina wasn't even over Florida yet.
Gov. Blanco declared a state of emergency three days before the storm hit. At her request, President Bush declared a federal state of emergency two days before it hit. Mayor Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation one day before it hit.
It is very easy to second guess someone after plenty of sleep when presented with selective information.
Yes, it is. But from what little we do know, I think this should merit an investigation. If you have local media sources who are providing additional information on this that the national media's not covering, post links.
" ... from what little we do know ... "
Rogers, this is the MOST intelligent thing you have said on the subject. When you finally realize that even the things you THINK you know are mostly wrong, you may finally begin to see the light. You had better be careful, your liberal friends may start looking at you a little funny!
" ... local media sources who are providing additional information on this that the national media's not covering, post links."
The number of local media covering the Katrina story are miniscule compared to the number of national people on the ground and they are NOT spending their time trying to publish corrections and counterpoints to the national stories. They are doing the same thing the national press is doing, trying to cover the sensational and local neighborhood/human interest stories.
Hopefully, after this is all over and before the various participants memories of the details of this drama fade, we will get a reliable, unbiased , timeline based history of this event from the various people involved. For there to be any hope of getting the story right, the information will have to be gathered and compiled by historians, NOT the news media! Even with historians, care must be taken. There is a fairly large group of revisionist historians that can't be trusted any more than the news media.
Paying you about as high a compliment as I can pay any true liberal, you seem to be open to at least the idea that everything you see on TV or read in the press isn't necessarily "The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing But The Truth". I consider myself a conservative so in most liberals eyes I am an "ignorant, cretin, redneck, cracker, etc." that should not be associated with. But, if you can look past that and ever the chance should present itself, I would be happy to commiserate with you over a bottle of your favorite John Barleycorn. Stripping away the veneer of civilization that arms length debate allows in favor of the "up close and personal" is good for the soul.
As Jack London said, "John Barleycorn must have his due. He does tell the truth. That is the curse of it. The so-called truths of life are not true. They are the vital lies by which life lives, and John Barleycorn gives them the lie."
BRJ1962,
You either haven't read my post above or choose to discount them. In either case, your understanding of the situation is as far removed from reality as possible. If you insist in believing only the excerpts of the "Truth" as presented by the national media and NPR, no one can help you. On the other had, if you are interested in "Reality" as oppose to the "Truth as Seen on TV", come on down! I will introduce you to some of the Gretna people that hot-wired the commandeered school buses, disarmed and moved 4,000-6000 refugees as well as some of the people standing on the bridge.
"There is none so blind as those who will not see."
RE to Gretna Mike: Thank you for putting into words what I have been trying to say. However, we are all just wasting our breathes with these people because they have their opinions, and that's that. So be it. BRJ1962 says that we didn't rise to the occassion. HA!!! Again, it's never enough for these people hugh? How many times do you have to say that WE DID TRY TO HELP AND, SUCCEEDED IN HELPING AS MANY AS WE COULD. Right up to the point that the help, started getting shot at. Gee, what appreciation they showed to our people hugh? And we're supposed to say" Aw, that's o.k., some of them are good." Hell no. you don't bite the hand that feeds you!!! And that's just what those people were doing. So, in the end, we are racists because we had enough and decided to do something about it????? Oh well, call us what you want because we don't give a shit. We still have our homes, with ALL of our possessions, we still have our stores that weren't damaged by the storms!!! We still have each other. Our Police chief saw to it that We are able to have all of these things still. Had Arthur not closed the bridge, and let all the contaraband in, I know for a fact, that we would not be able to say that we still had all of these things. The facts are the facts, and they cannot be changed. N.O. Has the highest crime rate around here. Maybe Katrina was sent to clean all of it up. Maybe now, the ones who got a second chance at life, will take this chance and change thier ways. Then again, NOT!!! but there's always hope. As for the elderly, handicapped, and not so fortunate people that lived in N.O., I hope they will find a better life. By the way, notice no color was added to that last statement!!! It's not about color, as I said, it's about CLASS!!! So, to all of you idiots who know nothing about our city, and make your judgements by listening to the press and non-knowing assholes, you can all go live with these so called 'evacuues' that you pity so much. I give you 1 month, and you'll be wanting to be a westbanker like us. Never read a book by it's cover, because it's the inside reading that matters!!!!! Maybe Artur Lawson should be President!! Then maybe we would see some changes in this country!!!! He's got my vote!!!
The police and city officials of Gretna responded in a callouus, vicious and shameful manner to neighbors in need of help.
All true americans shall pay back to Gretna in the same manner; We shall BOYCOTT Gretna. As citizens of the United States we can not tolerate racism to get to this magnitude. The major of Gretna shall fire all his police and if he does not want to do that then he shall fire himself too. It is important to investigate if any more people die because of Gretna Police Actions. If we find that some people die because they were sent back into New Orleans, we shall bring the whole Gretna Police force into a humanity tribiunal and sent them all to jail if found guilty. I dont see why we shall tolerate this in America when we dont accept this in othe rparts of the world. People of New Orleans, Lousina, America dont tolerate, please protest in any way you can and let your voice be hear about the racist police force in Gretna.
Jay and Kevin,
Based our your post, I am just going to assume you are a couple of SAIL's who only belive in the "Truth According to Geraldo". I'm sorry but it is impossible debate or carry on a conversation with a true SAIL.
ITS REALLY INTERESTING TO READ ALL OF THE MIS-INFORMATION AND ATTEMPTS TO MAKE GRETNA'S ACTIONS RACIAL. PERHAPS IF YOU WERE AWARE OF WHAT HAD ACTUALLY HAPPENED YOU WOULD NOT BE SO QUICK TO BLAME AND EXPLOIT THE RACE CARDS.
DID YOU KNOW THAT BEFORE THE BRIDGE INCIDENT THE GRETNA POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS FERRYING PEOPLE WHO HAD CROSSED THE BRIDGE TO BUSSES THAT WERE WAITING ON THE EAST BANK BY I-10 AND THAT THE ACTION WAS TERMINATED WHEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT RAN OUT OF FUEL FOR THE BUSSES.
DID YOU KNOW THAT THE CITIZENS OF GRETNA WERE GLAD THAT THEY WERE IN FACT PROTECTED.
DID YOU KNOW THAT THE ENTIRE CITY COUNCIL APPPROVED OF CHIEF LAWSON'S ACTIONS AND THA T ONE OF THE COUNCILMEN (J BOWLER IS IN FACT A BLACK MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY.
I AM REALLY TIRED OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SATISFIED UNLESS THEY ARE CREATING SOME TYPE OF PROBLEM. IF YOU REALLY CARE FOR THE CITZENS OF NEW ORLEANS AND SURRONDING AREAS YOU WOULD GET OFF THE COMPUTER AND STOP MAKING YOUR INANE COMMENTS AND IN FACT GIVE SOME NEEDED MONEY TO THE RED CROSS OR OTHER RELIEF ORGANIZATIONS OR MAKE GOOD USE OF YOUR TIME BY TRYING TO BRING US ALL TOGETHER RATHER THAN TRYING TO CAUSE GREATER DIVISIONS.
AMEN!!!!
I am going to forward all the comments from this webpage to a friend that works at ABC News and I am sure he is going to find more then one person interested in this story. My hope is to find out if more people die because of the Gretna's police, city council and all the German Predominant Racist People. I guess we already what happen during World War II. Here is the story from the Los Angeles Times, I'm the Times is more crediable then all of you from Gretna.
Published on Friday, September 16, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times
After Blocking the Bridge, Gretna Circles the Wagons
Long wary of next-door New Orleans, the town stands by its decision to bar the city's evacuees.
by Nicholas Riccardi
GRETNA, Louisiana - Little over a week after this mostly white suburb became a symbol of callousness for using armed officers to seal one of the last escape routes from New Orleans -- trapping thousands of mostly black evacuees in the flooded city -- the Gretna City Council passed a resolution supporting the police chief's move.
"This wasn't just one man's decision," Mayor Ronnie C. Harris said Thursday. "The whole community backs it."
Three days after Hurricane Katrina hit, Gretna officers blocked the Mississippi River bridge that connects their city to New Orleans, exacerbating the sometimes troubled relationship with their neighbor. The blockade remained in place into the Labor Day weekend.
Gretna (pop. 17,500) is a feisty blue-collar city, two-thirds white, that prides itself on how quickly its police respond to 911 calls; it warily eyes its neighbor, a two-thirds black city (pop. about 500,000) that is also a perennial contender for the murder capital of the U.S.
Itself deprived of power, water and food for days after Katrina struck Aug. 29, Gretna suddenly became the destination for thousands of people fleeing New Orleans. The smaller town bused more than 5,000 of the newcomers to an impromptu food distribution center miles away. As New Orleans residents continued to spill into Gretna, tensions rose.
After someone set the local mall on fire Aug. 31, Gretna Police Chief Arthur S. Lawson Jr. proposed the blockade.
"I realized we couldn't continue, manpower-wise, fuel-wise," Lawson said Thursday. Armed Gretna police, helped by local sheriff's deputies and bridge police, turned hundreds of men, women and children back to New Orleans.
Gretna is not the only community that views New Orleans with distrust. Authorities in St. Bernard Parish, to the east, stacked cars to seal roads from the Crescent City. But Gretna's decision has become the symbol of the ultimate act of a bad neighbor, gaining notoriety partly from an account in the Socialist Worker newspaper by two San Francisco emergency workers and labor leaders who were in a crowd turned back by Gretna police.
Numerous angry e-mails to Gretna officials accuse them of racism. (Harris and Lawson are white.)
New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin said Thursday that Gretna officials "will have to live" with their decision.
"We allowed people to cross ... because they were dying in the convention center," Nagin said. "We made a decision to protect people ... . They made a decision to protect property."
Paul Ribaul, 37, a New Orleans TV-station engineer from Gretna, said New Orleans and the suburbs have a complicated relationship.
"We say we're from New Orleans, but we're a suburb," he said. "The reason we don't live there is we don't like the crime, the politics."
Ribaul was among Gretna residents who praised the decision to close the bridge. "It makes you feel safe to live in a city like that," he said.
Critics suspect a racial motive for the blockade. City officials heatedly deny any such thing.
Among black residents of Gretna, some say that although they get along with most of their white neighbors, a few of the neighbors harbor strong prejudices.
Some black Gretna residents also speak fearfully of New Orleans. "We don't have as much killing over here as in New Orleans," said Leslie Anne Williams, 42.
Nonetheless, Williams' mother, a lifelong Gretna resident who is also black, disapproved of the Police Department's decision. People fleeing New Orleans "probably had a better chance of survival over here," said Laura Williams, 70, "especially with all that shooting" across the river.
When Katrina hit, about 5,000 of Gretna's residents were still in town. Police zigzagged the trim streets of ranch houses and older wooden buildings, checking on those who had not evacuated.
Like New Orleans, Gretna lost power and water. Town officials pleaded unsuccessfully for help from the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Then they learned that New Orleans officials had told the thousands trapped in that city's downtown, similarly deprived of food and water but also dodging gunfights and rising floodwaters, to cross to Gretna.
Not sure how to feed even their own residents, Gretna officials were overwhelmed by New Orleans' evacuees. They organized bus caravans Aug. 31 to take the arrivals to Metairie, 16 miles away, where a food and water distribution center had been set up.
The evacuees waited for rides out of Gretna at the foot of the bridge, across the street from Oakwood Mall. As the hours ticked by and the crowd swelled, trouble began, Gretna authorities said.
Sometime on Wednesday, Aug. 31, a fire broke out in the mall, next to the local branch of the sheriff's office, and police chased suspected looters out of the building.
Mayor Harris had had enough. He called the state police.
"I said: 'There will be bloodshed on the west bank if this continues,' " Harris recalled. " 'This is not Gretna. I am not going to give up our community!' "
The following morning, Gretna's police chief made his decision: Seal the bridge.
The San Francisco paramedics said in an interview and in their article that there were gunshots over the heads of people crossing the bridge from New Orleans' convention center -- many of them elderly -- where they were stuck for days without food, water and working toilets.
Nagin, New Orleans' mayor, said that he'd heard similar reports about gunfire, as well as people being turned back by guard dogs.
Chief Lawson said that he was unaware of any of his officers shooting over the heads of evacuees on the bridge but said that one black officer did fire a shot overhead to quiet an unruly crowd waiting to board a bus.
Harris said Thursday that closing the bridge was a tough decision but that he felt it was right.
"We didn't even have enough food here to feed our own residents," Harris said. "We took care of our folks. It's something we had to do."
Times staff writer James Rainey contributed to this report.
Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times
Here is another independent report for all of you that dont believe on what really happen.
Evacuees blocked at gunpoint by racist policemen
Sunday September 11th 2005
ANDREW BUNCOMBE
in Washington
A LOUISIANA police chief has admitted that he ordered his officers to block a bridge over the Mississippi river and force escaping evacuees back into the chaos and danger of New Orleans.
Witnesses said the officers regularly fired their guns above the heads of the terrified, mainly black, people to drive them back and "protect" their own suburbs.
Two paramedics who were attending a conference in the city and then stayed to help those affected by the hurricane, said the officers told them they did not want their community "becoming another New Orleans" or "another Superdome".
The tired and desperate evacuees were forced to trudge back into the city which they had just left. "It was a real eye-opener," said Larry Bradshaw, 49, a paramedic from San Francisco. "I believe it was racism. It was callousness, it was cruelty."
Mr Bradshaw said the police blocked off the road on the Thursday and Friday after Hurricane Katrina struck on Monday August 29. He and his wife Lorrie Slonsky, also a paramedic, had sheltered with others in the Hotel Monteleone in the French Quarter.
When food and water ran out they were advised by a senior New Orleans police officer to cross the Crescent City Connection bridge to Jefferson Parish, where he promised they would find buses waiting to evacuate them.
They were in the middle of a group of up to 800 people - overwhelmingly black - walking across the bridge when they heard shots and saw people running. Making their way towards the crest of the bridge they saw a chain of armed police officers blocking the route. When they asked about the buses they were told there was no such arrangement and that the route was being blocked to avoid their parish becoming "another New Orleans". They identified the police as officers from the city of Gretna.
The following day Mr Bradshaw said they tried again to cross and directly witnessed police shooting over the heads of a middle-aged white couple who were also turned back. Arthur Lawson, chief of the Gretna police department, said he had not yet questioned his officers as to whether they fired their guns.
He confirmed that his officers, along with those from Jefferson Parish and the Crescent City Connection police force, sealed the bridge and refused to let people pass. This was despite the fact that local media were informing people that the bridge was one of the few safe evacuation routes from the city.
Mr Bradshaw and his wife were eventually evacuated to Texas and have since returned to California. They condemned the Louisian authorities, contrasting their mean-mindedness with the generosity of Texans.
London Independent
1)["""The following day Mr Bradshaw said they tried again to cross and directly witnessed police shooting over the heads of a middle-aged white couple who were also turned back."""]
This statement right here MR PEREZ, clearing makes it known that it was NOT a question of race. Now, had this white couple been allowed to cross, and not the others, then I would maybe agree on your issues. Read between the damn lines man. Critisize, investigate, do what ever you feel necessary. But, in the long run, what was done, had to be done.
2) Furthernore,[ """When food and water ran out they were advised by a senior New Orleans police officer to cross the Crescent City Connection bridge to Jefferson Parish, where he promised they would find buses waiting to evacuate them. """",]
this was a crock of shit. This chief is the one you should be comdening because he flat out LIED to those people. He made up a story just to make them happy? Oh yeah, that's real intelligent. Anyone of high authority, that is white, is being labeled as racist. How rediculous. That's the problem with the damn world these days. Everyone wants to always shout out "Discrimination". That's their way out, well, tough shit because this was not, as I said before, about race.
3)[""""We allowed people to cross ... because they were dying in the convention center," Nagin said. "We made a decision to protect people ... . They made a decision to protect property."""] Another crock of shit. It wasn't primarely about property, it WAS a decision about protecting people.
4)["""More people died because of the Gretna's police, city council and all the German Predominant Racist People.""") Even more Bull. Those people died because THEY CHOSE to stay. They knew the risk, but they took it anyway. As I said before, THAT WAS NOT OUR FAULT. So if anyone wants to put the blame on the deaths, they must put it on themselves first and farmost.
5)["""Not sure how to feed even their own residents, Gretna officials were overwhelmed by New Orleans' evacuees. They organized bus caravans Aug. 31 to take the arrivals to Metairie, 16 miles away, where a food and water distribution center had been set up."""] Oh, but we didn't help, isn't that what everyone is saying. And, by the way, Metairie is going the OTHER way, not towards Gretna. So don't even try and say that over the bridge was the ONLY way out. There were other alternatives damnit.
Facts are facts. And you damn people will try everything in your power to make it something that it's not. Well, you go right on ahead. If it happened again, god forbid, I would want Arthur Lawson, the gretna police, The councilman, and the armed forces to do it all over again just as they did it before. I can't explain the feeling to you of actually feeling SAFE in a world filled with so much crime. N.O. is the way N.O. is, we didn't make ot that way. However, we did make our side the way it is and unfortunately, we too, have our share of crime. But, it is handled and not as overwhelming as N.O. crime. And we intend, no matter what it takes, to keep it that way. Hopefully, all of those N.O. people have learned their lesson. And if this should occur again, they will get the hell out as they were informed to do. As I said before, FACTS ARE FACTS. Live with it!!!
Here's a fact Gretna residents have to live with: When came hell and high water, Gretna police decided it was more important to protect property than to protect people.
Jay Perez,
I will give the L.A. Times credit for getting at least part of the story right. Unfortunately, being a SAIL, you either didn't read it, didn't believe it or didn't understand it.
I doubt seriously if you will find anyone from the AP or any other major news media interested in publishing a major factual story of the event, it won't agree with their preconceived ideas. Of course, that won't stand in the way of them publishing a 90% fictional hatchet job.
This morning I finally saw something news related that made me laugh ... too bad it won't make the national news. General Honore told a reporter that asked a stupid question the truth (as well as I can remember it), "You're stupid, I just said that wasn't going to happen (referring to a previous question), next question". Hurray for the general!
"Here's a fact Gretna residents have to live with: When came hell and high water, Gretna police decided it was more important to protect property than to protect people."
WHAT FACT?????
I am sleeping pretty well since I still have a place to sleep; much better than I would be if I had to shoot a few people trying to break down my door and take my food and water.
It wasn't primarely about property, it WAS a decision about protecting people.
Weren't the people in Gretna after the storm violating a mandatory evacuation order? If so, I'd think that protecting them ought to have been less of a governmental priority than evacuating the people trapped in New Orleans.
"Weren't the people in Gretna after the storm violating a mandatory evacuation order? If so, I'd think that protecting them ought to have been less of a governmental priority than evacuating the people trapped in New Orleans."
Rogers, you show signs of intelligence and then you say something like this! Under exactly what form of twisted logic do the basic rights to water, food, shelter and protection, of the "foreign" group of people supercede the rights of the "locals"? It has already been established that there was NO EXTRA WATER, FOOD OR SHELTER available in Gretna. Ergo, they were going to have to take it from a Gretna resident. What does "mandatory evacuation order" have to do with anything! I will concede that NEITHER group should have been there but the fact is that BOTH were. Trying to blame any of this on the fact that some Gretna residents stayed behind requires a logical contortion greater than believing the "Matrix" really exist! Maybe if I smoked some "funny" mushrooms, I could understand you!
Under exactly what form of twisted logic do the basic rights to water, food, shelter and protection, of the "foreign" group of people supercede the rights of the "locals"?
If the locals were under mandatory orders to evacuate, it stands to reason that the Gretna and Jefferson Parish police should have expended their resources facilitating that evacuation, not guarding the area against people in a neighboring parish also under orders to evacuate.
That same logic would extend to using Gretna as a staging area. If your parish was under an evacuation order, then the people in New Orleans should have been allowed to pass through but discouraged from stopping there.
"If the locals were under mandatory orders to evacuate, it stands to reason that the Gretna and Jefferson Parish police should have expended their resources facilitating that evacuation, not guarding the area against people in a neighboring parish also under orders to evacuate.
That same logic would extend to using Gretna as a staging area. If your parish was under an evacuation order, then the people in New Orleans should have been allowed to pass through but discouraged from stopping there."
I will make my response to this nonsense as brief as possible.
THERE WERE NO MORE TRANSPORTATION RESOURCES!
Gretna did not arbitrarily stop moving people west across the HPL Bridge. They stopped because they RAN OUT OF FUEL!!!!!!! If their had been any fuel, this whole story would never have happened!
After the World Trade Centers collapsed, and people had to trudge over the Brooklyn Bridge to make their way home, shopkeepers passed out free water, others donated walking shoes to ladies in high heels. Police assisted anyone needing help.
In Gretna, when the desparate and frightened approached, your police fired over their heads, and turned them away.
This is why we are ashamed of your police and ashamed of your support for them.
ur mom
is a bitch
Kevin,
Normally, I would just ignore you, being a clueless SAIL, but this morning I am feeling generous.
Trying to compare what happened here to the WTC disaster, is such a stretch that only you and a few equally clueless "journalist", and I use that word loosely, would attempt to draw a parallel between the two. The similarities are so few and the differences so vast as to be mind boggling. Before you infer something sinister from the last statement, I am in NO WAY trying minimize the WTC disaster. My ONLY point is that they are radically different!
*****BREAK*****
I started the above this morning while I was still feeling fresh and generous. It is now 4:40 PM and since RITA seems to be turning more easterly, I have been doing the things you seem to find so abhorrent, protecting my property by putting up window covers, moving outdoor furniture, getting gas, water and non-perishable food. Contrary to what I am sure you believe, I didn't go out and "bait" my driveway with a few six-packs and a TV. I did however, check the magazine in the 9mm. I am now tired, ornery and no longer feeling generous. I will leave you with your fantasy that you actually know what you are talking about.
Hello - Cave Man gretna mike (et. al)
Wake up and ignite a few brain cells (if this is possible ... hmmmmmm).
And hello - hello - out there concerning - the sheriff and police who were ...um, say that again ... Oh yes, they were "firing shots" people, evacuees not looters - people without guns and only looking for help resources. Perhaps they could have met these people at the bridge and stated their predicament vs ... the neathanderthal stance? Isn't it funny that outside of Creole communities(Creoles of color - that is) and New Orleans - most of the planet have a negative view of . . well to be blatant - southern whites (rednecks, trailer trash, etc ...) and Gretna just fed into those stereotypes. So don't you think Gretna Cave Man Mike your kind haven't displayed any signs of human evolution (more like deevolution). hmmmmmmm Maybe this is too much food for thought for your very very very tiny craniums (aka - brains ... Mikey)
And forgive me, but this says much about the whole of Jefferson Parish (home of the kkk and david duke - notice the "small case" letters ... Wonder why? ... Go figure) ... What happened to the IQs ... in these areas? Yes, I know much about this state, as most of my family are from it (hundreds of years), so why repeat "old" and incredibly ignorant (okay ...unbelievably stupid) methods of ...um "defending territory"
Remember Cave Man Mikey ... "You not Tarzan, I not Jane" "You not have to use a club to ... make your point and defend your space" OK???
On that note - Nagin is an absolute hero compared to the rest.
(If this troubles you, why not go down and help the d'mort groups tally up the bodies ... or actually support families in need. I am ...Put those ignorant redneck lips into POSITIVE and INTELLIGENT action vs ...deevolution )
cc
cc, (small case)
Huh???!!!
Sorry, I don't understand gibberish. If there was suppose to be something intelligible in the above ramblings, please have someone rewrite it for you into something that resembles English language constructs.
You aren't, per chance, a product of the Orleans Parish Public School system are you? If not, maybe you smoked a few too many funny cigarettes or sucked up too much of that white powder last night.
Dear Gretna Scum,
What you fail to realize is that Gretna is not a fiefdom. Gretna is not an independent territory. The Gretna pigs had no legal authority to block what was a perceived escape route! It is a basic fundamental right in this country to travel freely from State to State, city to city, town to town, jurisdication to jurisdiction.
Those individuals - white, black, hispanic, green, blue or whatever were under the perception that crossing that bridge into Gretna was going to provide them with a safer haven than where they were.
The argument that the Gretna pigs were "protecting" their citizens is just plain bullshmit! Their speculation that the 800 or so people who eventually were gathered and poised to cross over were nothing more than thugs, thieves, robbers, looters isn't borne by the facts. Is it possible a few unsavory characters were mixed in? Sure. Was it an out-of-control ravenous mob? No! They were tourists, journalists, New Orleanians who had every right to move freely in any direction out of the city - regardless of whether or not it may not have been in the ideal direction. The fact that these people may have used bad judgment and didn't evacuate earlier is irrelevant. The facts bear out that there was still time for them to evacuate albeit not very far. The fact that they were driven back as if they were a hoard of marauders is abhorrent and despicable and just goes to show what decades of corruption, greed and the good-ole-boy network has bred in Louisiana.
We will not let this issue die! The Gretna pigs who fired their guns and threatened the lives of law abiding citizens who were seeking refuge from a major hurricane will be brought to justice!
Jimbolaya,
Sorry, you are a pure, clueless, SAIL reciting your TV News based, learned opinions and showing your elitism. Please, if you want to call me names, open up a Thesaurus and show at least a little creativity!
I am glad to see that someone taught you to spell (or at least how to use a spell checker) and construct a reasonable sentence. It's too bad they didn't teach you to think.
I'm not calling you names Mike, I'm just pointing out the obvious about what you are. Hey, don't be ashamed though. You can't help it. It's how you were (in)bred. How you were raised. It's the environment where you live. It's the buddies with whom you hunt and drink and fish. It's who your children will eventually grow up to be, if they already haven't. It's probably who your wife or girl friend is too.
It's what makes America great, Mike. Diversity! Black, white, hispanic. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu and atheist. The poor, the rich, the middle-class, the illegal, the toothless inbred that populate Gretna too - all swirling around in the melting pot called America.
It's not name calling, Mike. It's cultural awareness. It's good for Americans to know what lurks in the backwaters of Gretna. It's a positive thing for the eyes of Americans to be opened to the moral and fiber character that defines Gretna. Ya' see Mike, you and Gretna were made for each other. You compliment each other so well. You deserve each other. It's the ideal place where you can thrive and grow and prosper and contribute. It's perfect for you, Mike. And I for one am glad you are there - and not here! :)
I hadn't even heard of Gretna until NPR aired Gretna's side of the story the other day. It appears that Gretna was tired fo all the criticism they had taken for shooting over the heads of people desperate for help so they wanted to tell their side of the story. Well, their side of the story is all I heard and I have to say that it didn't come off very well. It sounds to me like they had their reasons for what they did, but no matter what those reason were they come off as scared people willing to be brutal to others to save themselves. In the story of the Good Samaritan didn't the Pharasee pass on by the hurt man because he was afraid for his own life? It sounds to me like many people in Gretna, in spite of claiming being Christians, would claim that the Pharasee did the right thing.
I'm not calling you names Mike, I'm just pointing out the obvious about what you are. Hey, don't be ashamed though. You can't help it. It's how you were (in)bred. How you were raised. It's the environment where you live. It's the buddies with whom you hunt and drink and fish. It's who your children will eventually grow up to be, if they already haven't. It's probably who your wife or girl friend is too.
It's what makes America great, Mike. Diversity! Black, white, hispanic. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu and atheist. The poor, the rich, the middle-class, the illegal, the toothless inbred that populate Gretna too - all swirling around in the melting pot called America.
It's not name calling, Mike. It's cultural awareness. It's good for Americans to know what lurks in the backwaters of Gretna. It's a positive thing for the eyes of Americans to be opened to the moral and fiber character that defines Gretna. Ya' see Mike, you and Gretna were made for each other. You compliment each other so well. You deserve each other. It's the ideal place where you can thrive and grow and prosper and contribute. It's perfect for you, Mike. And I for one am glad you are there - and not here! :)
Oh Great One of the Various Names,
Your post is a perfect illustration of the liberal mindset. In all the above diatribe, as far as I can tell without knowing you, you got EXACTLY one thing right about me. Gretna is a pretty good place to live!
It is also a great illustration why I chose not to engage on point with you. Rogers appears to be a thinking liberal, capable of making points based on logical conclusions from what he sees and hears. He also seems to be willing to accept, at least on the surface, that there may actually be an alternative view and relevant facts not presented by the news media. I don't harbor any delusions about converting him to a conservative viewpoint but he is capable of rational debate on the issue. Everyone else of the liberal persuasion posting here appears to be a pure SAIL. If I missed any other thinking liberal's post, I apologized in advance for calling you a SAIL.
Man blubbering.."He told me he was talking to his mama and he told her the'yre coming for you momma..they're coming for you momma"
Man blubbering.."And then the next day he talked to his mama and he told her they're coming for you momma..they're coming for you.."
Man blubbering.."And the next day he talked to his mama again and he told her you just hold on mama they're coming for you..they're coming for you mama.."
Man blubbering.."Sheriff, you just go ahead and shoot them sons-of-bitches if you have to..we ain't lettin' them cross the bridge"
Louisiana - ain't it a great place to live!
what a crock of shit. if you believe that then you will believe that all those people were murdered in the superdome and con center.
If you dont like it ....leave
You all are in such a heated battle over this subject, I dont even know if either side wants the truth at this point from someone who was there.
I had been in New Orleans since the day after the storm, having driven from out of town with several other members of my team. (La. Local Law Enforcement from Western La.)
The Gretna Police and Gretna City Government started out helping out at the unannounced "staging area" that was hastily setup at Oakwood Mall by the New Orleans City Government.
Due to no fault of the Gretna Police, the buses stopped coming. The crowd in the parking lot of Oakwood Mall continued to grow as night fell.
The crowd was 99% black. You each take that for what it is worth. Until nightfall, and while the busses were running, the crowd was fairly calm.
As soon as night fell, they entirely looted Oakwood Mall. As dawn arrived, they burned it. Gretna Police with the assistance of many other responding agencies took back the Mall and its parking areas, and moved the crowds away in any vehicles that could be summoned.
That morning was the first time I saw a checkpoint going out of the City.
After all that each of you have written, right or left, the fact remains that the checkpoint did not stop any VEHICLES. Only pedestrians.
The 800 person crowd spoken of at the beginning of this thread did not stay on the bridge long. They ultimately made their way out of N.O.
The unfortunate fact remains that if they had been allowed to walk out of New Orleans on that route, the only relief that would have obtained them was the opportunity to loot Gretna. There were no shelters, relief centers, etc set up on the WestBank at that time.
The only imminent result would have been that the evacuees would have become looters, even if that was not their original intent. They would have been forced to for survival. They would have attempted to loot an occupied home and been killed by a frightened homeowner or police officer.
The fault with this entire sad story still lies with (in order)
A) the people, INCLUDING JOURNALISTS AND MEDICAL STAFF that refused to heed Max Mayfield's and later the Mayor's orders to immediately leave the city, EVEN AFTER IT WAS MADE PUBLIC THAT THE LEVEE HAD BREACHED.
B)The Mayor and the Governor of the State of Louisiana for not MOVING THOSE BUSSES. The Dome area was dry enough for at least 36 hours to DRIVE a bus up to and pick up passengers and evac them. If you dont believe that is true, then check into what happened to the 5000 Orleans parish inmates that got moved to safety the two days after the storm. (That jail is 2 blocks from the Dome)
C) The Louisiana State Police.
There was no central police command after the storm wiped out the NOPD.(True enough it was on its way to disaster long before Katrina) Thousands of Officers responded from across Louisiana. Had one Senior Trooper stood up and assigned areas of the city, including GRETNA, Metarie, Kenner and various neighborhoods inside N.O., the city would have been under control within 48 hours. BEFORE this bridge incident occurred. The LSP often and loudly self proclaims themself to be the "premier law enforcement agency in the state of Louisiana" We all looked to them for leadership and it was not there. It never came. It is shameful that the US Armed forces was required to take control of the city when probably by then almost 10000 police officers from as far away as Canada had arrived to help.
Personally, I did find the LSP in only two places. At checkpoints outside the city and holed up in a building near the Convention Center... I want that to sink in. ONE HUNDRED YARDS AWAY FROM THE CONVENTION CENTER. They did NOTHING.
D) The Mayor of N.O. and Chief Compass spent many, many hours after Katrina putting their immense collective I.Q.s together in meeting after meeting after meeting, and I am sure they formulated a perfect response for the responding police and fire / rescue agencies to execute. We Missed the Memo. We waited for days at Harrahs to be told where to go and what to do.
The few brave NOPD cops that STAYED on duty were left without basic life sustaining support, food, water, ammo, much less leadership in their darkest hour.
The very worst part of the sheer lack of command by the LSP is that it forced smart, brave cops and firemen out of the city at night for fear of fratricide. We were so afraid of foot patrolling areas that had rising water because of the very real chance of being shot by a fellow police officer. So we worked at dawn, and slept in our cars IN GRETNA, at night.
Both sides in this case are right, according to the twisted facts you have been fed.
The real fault here is apparent to anybody who was ACTUALLY there.
The mistake happened long before the storm.
Oh. By the way. The people that "were prevented from walking out of the city of New Orleans over the CCC had walked past at least several other ramps that led down to dry ground. Everything to the South and East of St. Charles St., INCLUDING THE DAMN FRENCH QUARTER WHERE THESE SAN FRANSICO PARAMEDICS STARTED AT, was dry and relatively safe.
By the way, as of day three post storm, I SAW french quarter bar owners running beer boxes on generators and selling beer. I wonder why the paramedics would move themselves into a more dangerous situation that the 5 star hotel where they started this adventure. WAIT AT THE MONTELEONE FOR THE GODDAMN BUSES!
The paramedics weren't allowed to remain in their French Quarter hotel, according to their written account. They were kicked out, told to go to the central business district, not allowed into any shelters, then tried to leave via the bridge to Gretna.
Thanks for posting your perspective on the situation.
I don't doubt that it happened but I also agree wholeheartedly with Gretna closing the bridge. I wouldn't want my town burned down with looters running rampant in the streets either if there was some way to avoid it... Sounds like they did everything they could to help until their resources were depleted and when things started to go the way they did in New Orleans, they choose to close the town. Some of you people seem to have this vision that Gretna was this little paradise of white people holding back the black people but try to remember that THIS town was also hit the hurricane.
People can cry 'racism!' all they want but the same decision would have been made if the crowd was an unruly crowd of white people too. *shrug*
being Racist is the worst thing you can do.sherrif gredna is a pig for not getting help from america or letting new orleans in.looting in this crisis and shooting people (sick).donate and help instead of arguing.the sherrif is an a-hole.
sherrif made a mistake that killed 5000 or more people
If anyone has ever actually LIVED in New Orleans were posting comments, they would know that any time that the city has tried to help it's citizens during a hurricane situation it was a catastrophe. The last time that the city opened the superdome to it's patrons they were thanked by theft and vandalism. These "helpless" citizens were stealing rows of seats and actually complained about the free food that the city provided. It is no wonder that the city might have hesitated to opening up public shelters in the city. The crime and murder rate in New Orleans was (prior to Katrina) record breaking. I do not blame Harry Lee (sheriff of Kenner) for taking a stern approch to the situation that they were dealing with. I also agree with the Gretna Police and Gretna City Government in their decision to close the bridge. There were armed savages looting and raping the innocent while officials were trying to get the situation somewhat under control. The average citizen in the city of New Orleans embraces poverty and ignorance, and there IS NO CHANGING THAT. Please notice the crime stats in the cities that these poor victims were bused into. I believe that it might just proove my point. Using FEMA and Red Cross money to buy drugs and strippers only hinders actual relief efforts for the genuine people in need (like myself). Here's a few questions. Where do you live Mr. Rogers Cadenhead? Is it a nice neighborhood? Have you noticed any newly displaced citizens in your area? If so please sleep soundly knowing that will all change. There is a plaigue of ignorance and it is spreading. If you believe in guns, buy one. If not GOOD LUCK. THIS IS NOT RACISM - THIS IS REALITY. Sleep well.
You people don't have a CLUE! Live here in New Orleans for about 2 months and you will have a different opinion. This is a case of "The Good Suffer for the Bad." Do you realize that some of these people were raping children in the Convention Center??? and looting gold shops and shoe stores (I guess they were hungry right... I'm sure those shoes tasted good). And Gretna is supposed to just let them march into our city and go loot peoples houses for those shoes to eat. Gretna did let them through at first... what happened? Oh, they just burned down our Mall! These poor people... right? You are feeling sorry for criminals who burned down our shopping mall! Of course, not all of the people were criminals. I'd be scared for my life too if I was in a crowd mixed in with those low-life people. But the Gretna police department is not big enough to manage and secure that large amount of people. Why do you think Nagin sent them over to the westbank? duh... b/c they were messing up New Orleans. You people are really confused... and if you still feel sorry for them... how about I buy a plane ticket for some of them to come to your house while you are not home so they can come in and eat your TV's and furniture.
Let me start this by telling you that I am the female of the "middle aged white couple" that was shot at on Friday after Katrina by the Gretna police. This DID happen. I think the people of Gretna are living in La-La Land. Here are a couple of points for you to ponder while you sit smugly in your pathetic little city:
1. You guys were looted by GRETNA CITIZENS! Wake up- the New Orleans looters were not going to cross that bridge and walk another mile after that to loot your little town. Looters are ignorant animals and I seriously doubt they would go the extra mile or two for your little community full of run down apartment buidlings and boarded up stores.
2. No one was crossing that bridge to go to Gretna. IT WAS THE ONLY WAY OUT to get to the first check point (LaPlace) so we could get a ride out of town. I had family members who could not get in the city to pick us up because it was CLOSED. No one wanted Gretna's food, water, busses, shelters or whatever you guys think you have there. I-10 West was under water. I-10 East was broken into a bunch of pieces.
3. The Gretna police were in NEW ORLEANS when they stopped people. If they wanted to keep people out of Gretna then close off the two measley exits to your city.
4. This was not a racial thing. I am white. I have blonde hair and blue eyes. I was wearing a Jazz Fest hat and a pink shirt. How threatening is that to you?
5. I had a business in Jefferson Parish that I have moved to New Orleans. I won't even go to the Westbank anymore. Keep your people there and keep ours here- that's fine. And like someone posted earlier- let's re-route the highway so that it doesn't even go near Gretna. The tax revenue from Gretna's poor little area would not even help to build the down ramp. Half your busineses on the Westbank Expressway were closed down and boarded up way before hurricane season.
6. THERE WOULD BE NO GRETNA IF THERE WAS NO NEW ORLEANS. Did anyone ever consider this?
7. Why would they let only people in cars go through? On the way out of the city we saw people hot wire cars and drive them out. Wouldn't these people be more dangerous? They sure could fit more of your posessions in there-including the daughters one of you said they all wanted to rape.
We stayed during the hurricane to help two elderly neighbors who refused to evacuate (whom the National Guard rescued). We had enough food and water at our home for months. We had generators. The only reason we left was because Nagin pleaded on the radio for everyone to get out. Rumors were flying around that the city was going to be even more destroyed. From our balcony, we could see fires all along the river. We would have driven out but we could not get our car out of the driveway due to the river going down our street (levees breached you know). So we had to walk out- and we were prepared to walk to LaPlace where I had family waiting to get us. We did not need a bus. We did not need a darn thing from Gretna.
Do any of you in Gretna have a soul? You are like cold, unfeeling animals. Saying that you would rather have people die then have your houses looted? Don't you have insurance?
What kind of human being places the value of property over lives? I don't care which God you worship but I doubt there is a religion out there that would agree with this kind of thinking. I know a lot of you are defensive about this because you know deep down how wrong it is. I certainly hope so.
By the way, after we were shot at, the Gretna Robo-Cop chased us down the bridge with his gun pointed at us. We were picked up on the interstate by one of the kindest BLACK families who were trying to get out of New Orleans. So for all you racists out there- remember that there is good and bad in all races. Unfortunately the bad get more camera time.
And for everyone who says New Orleans is a cess pool and should not be rebuilt- stay away. You don't have to visit here. You don't have to come have beignets at Cafe du Monde. You don't have to watch the Radiators every year at Jazz Fest. We don't need you standing next to us while we catch beads at parades with our children. We don't need you sitting next to us at Galatoire's while we have martinis on Friday evenings. I don't want to listen to you complain while I'm enjoying a cheeseburger at Port O Call or having a bowl of turtle soup at Mandina's. We don't want you standing next to us while we watch Kermit Ruffins play his trumpet Blue Nile. I don't want you near me while I eat crawfish by Lake Pontchartrain and sip Abita Ambers. No one needs you while we watch a random second line go down the street. I don't want you sitting on a rumbling streetcar going down St. Charles. And I certainly don't want to see you at a play at the Saenger Theater while the star lights twinkle above my head. Anyone who does not like our culture here can stay in their planned subdivisions where every other house looks the same while I marvel at the architecture of my historic home and feel like the luckiest girl in the world to live in such a beautiful and marvelous city.
We are rebuilding this amazing place and I for one am proud to be resident of New Orleans. Gretna can kiss my rear end.
Peace.
Hmmm... when I last checked the altitude maps, the French quarter and just a few other areas around it are above water. The rest that was developed below came afterwards. And the lowest parts were saved for the most expendable, poorest, darkest skinned types... the ones they want to bulldoze and turn into golf courses now.
I guess that would meet the Patriotic goal of inexpensive redevelopment. [But to be fair, even a golf course below sea-level in hurricane exposed arease probably makes little economic sense]
Ahh... but let's not forget to lay the blame on the French for inventing truck-not-auto regulation-designated SUV, for giving at best lip service to Kyoto, for dumping all that energy into the atmosphere that needs some form of release, for drying out swamps ...
Man... those Freedom Fires (oops,'Fries') really are greasy!
"And the lowest parts were saved for the most expendable, poorest, darkest skinned types... the ones they want to bulldoze and turn into golf courses now."
This is absolutely untrue. The 17th Street Canal breech flooded Lakeview. This area was 99% white and upper middle class.
The area they want to bulldoze is the Lower 9th ward. I drove through there yesterday and it looks like a bomb went off. Houses are in the streets, many are just slabs now and there are boats on top of cars still.
This area is not in a "flood zone". Lakeview is not either so many people did not have flood insurance in these places.
If you were on the GNO bridge on Friday morning after the storm please contact us. We were there. We are the "middle aged white couple" that was fired upon by the coward Gretna Police. Shame Gretna Shame.
Kevin & Dominique
fromthecrescentcity@yahoo.com
First off after reading this entire thread, it is easy to see why so many other countries in the world want to kill Americans...First, to the anti christians, you need Jesus...especially the gay girl who thinks following God's word, is EXTREME. God made Adam and Eve sweetie, not AVA and EVE ok? It's wrong...period, not because I SAID SO, but because the WORD of GOD said so, so if you have a problem, curse God, not us. Second, to all the earth-disturbing idioits talking about why residents didn't leave N.O. when the mandatory evacuations were given...DUHHHH, they couldn't!!! If you are poor, with no money and no car, how exactly are you supposed to leave???? I blame this solely on the mayor for not taking the help offered him by Amtrak and not using those school buses that were flooded to get those folk outta there. There is much blame to go around, and even though there were many white people who were trapped and lost their lives, this was most definitely a racial issue seeing as how the MAJORITY were black. My hubby has a friend on his job who is from N.O. and has friends are still there, they went as far as to say that the breech in the levies, wasn't caused by the hurricane, but rather by underwater bombs set off by the government. He says it is is not the first time they have attempted to annialate the poor blacks in this city by those means. He says they actually "heard" the muffled explosions and then came the flood water. I am sorry, but I beleive it. Racists in this country have been trying to get rid of blacks and roaches in this country for years, but we are not going anywhere. My heart goes out to all of those who lost loved ones and are still searching....may God give you peace and keep your head up because as 2 Thessalonians 1:6 says: "God is just". "He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you, and bring relief to the troubled". The battle is not ours, but His......
Thanks God for the determination of Chief Lawson to protect the people who elected him and their property. Someone who finally has BALLS!
As for the "white couple" who respond here thank you for never coming to the westbank again. We don't want your kind here looting and burning our mall which is still closed thanks to the damage done by your crowd. They were allowed onto the westbank and after destroying our only mall they were run off and kept out. BRAVO Gretna for saving the rest of the westbank. The westbank is the only surviving part of the city right now and I thank Gretna for making that happen. I have a home thank to them and you and your comments can have the city!
Hey Rodgers, The city of Gretna was on 60 Minutes. Eat your heart out. I hope you enjoyed it.
Compass said he sent eight eleven-man teams into the convention center. But as soon as the first team arrived, he said, "they were beaten back within 30 feet of the entrance."
Earlier, the city's mayor issued a "desperate SOS" on behalf of the thousands who are stranded at the convention center.
He also gave the go-ahead for them to march across a bridge to a dry area of the city and look for whatever relief they could find.
Look at New Orleans now, must be one of the safest place on the planet. Look at Houston now, must be one of the scariest place to live. Look at how your brothers did at the hospitality of Houstonian, increased crime rate. Im so proud of these New Orleanians, theyre doing a great job here in Houston.
You people have no idea how life in New Orleans is. Blacks feel they are owed everything, and the black government makes sure the working white man supports them. How else would lazy blacks survive. Work or leave. They refuse to work, have kids so the government pays them more, I have clients from all over the country and world, who all say the same thing, "I wasn't rascist until I came here". You people should shut the fuck up unless you know the entire story, not saw cnn or heard the poor black guy tell his sad story on tv. I personally know Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson, he has more balls than most people in the spotlight, and is a GOD in my eyes. I love this man. What higher ground is there than the bridge? Where were they going to go? In the white mans nieghborhood, where he has worked hard all his life for what he has. Stop being cowards and see the fact that blacks in New Orleans are different from blacks in other parts of the country. Thats the way it is.
i am going to runn to china and then germany and stop in for a burger in new orleans ....... ya i rock you dont
I do not underdtand how, they can work so bad, when they recevied so much money?
I LIVE IN GRETNA, LA AND IM PROUD OF A OFFICIALS PROTECTING OUR CITY, AS THEY WERE ELECTED TO DO. IF YOU OFFICIALS WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME YOU WOULDNT HAVE HAD TO CROSS THE BRIDGE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF.
PS. YOU ALL SHOULD HAVE LEFT IN THE FIRST PLACE
Arthur Lawson did his job.And every one that lives in the city and surounding areas support his dission.
Arthur Lawson did his job.And every one that lives in the city and surounding areas support his dission.
Go to maps.google.com and type in "Gretna, LA". The I-90 bridge to Gretna doesn't lead out of the city, it only leads to Gretna. It doesn't look to me like those people (I don't see anywhere where it even says they were mostly black) were evacuating New Orleans. someone linked to Gretna census statistics to show that they were mostly white. Well, Gretna is less white than Louisiana in general. Gretna is 56% white, LA is 63.9% white. It still doesn't look to me like the police were being very neighborly. However, maybe most of the people in Gretna were smart and evacuated early. I wouldn't want a starving mob around my house when I was away either. I think the correct course of action would be to get what citizens were left in Gretna to give what they could to the refugees. I don't see a reason to let them into Gretna though if the buses that would truly take them out of the city would be going to the superdome.
You people have no idea how life in New Orleans is. Blacks feel they are owed everything, and the black government makes sure the working white man supports them. How else would lazy blacks survive. Work or leave. They refuse to work, have kids so the government pays them more, I have clients from all over the country and world, who all say the same thing, "I wasn't rascist until I came here". You people should shut the fuck up unless you know the entire story, not saw cnn or heard the poor black guy tell his sad story on tv. I personally know Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson, he has more balls than most people in the spotlight, and is a GOD in my eyes. I love this man. What higher ground is there than the bridge? Where were they going to go? In the white mans nieghborhood, where he has worked hard all his life for what he has. Stop being cowards and see the fact that blacks in New Orleans are different from blacks in other parts of the country. Thats the way it is.
Gary | 2006-02-05 11:24 PM | link
bitch
The jobless , acting for the news cameras, new monkey panthers, I mean black panthers are going to march over the bridge to protest Gretna Police. Lets all get together and laugh at them and maybe throw chicken or peanuts or watermelon at them. Why is this allowed? What coward in charge has no balls and allows this? These stupid monkeys will march and yell, and when their done they will go to their government assissted housing, and watch the big screen tv looted from katrina. No jobs to go to, why not? Someone making decisions needs to have some balls and tell them to fuck off. I say we give these morons their own state. They will have it fucked up in months. We can stipulate, if you can't keep yourself afloat, move the fuck to africa! GET THE FUCK OUT! You make the city of New Orleans the fucked up city that it is. As long as blacks run things they will always be fucked up. This is a fact. It is what it is.
I'm going to pray for you people
"Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct.
Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol
vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking freeway".
A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy
structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food
and water.
Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups
of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot".
We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because
the agencies would force us into small atomized groups."
Are you people really that heartless. May God have mercy on your souls
You people should check out this website sometime...free government grants
Horrible, just horrible.
I live in a city next to Gretna, and this is not what happened, they did block, and these people trying to cross over, was already looting, shooting at each other, and burning the mall in Gretna, the orleans police are the ones that should be at fault for this, they are the ones that lied and turn their backs on their own citizens. this was not a racims and I road this storm out and saw the people crossing, and looting peoples homes, that had to be stoped!!!!! GO GRETNA POLICE, THANKS FOR PROTECTING THE WESTBANK
I bet if you lived in Gretna and an angry armed mob looking for valuables to loot and women to rape was heade for your town, you would want your sheriff to keep you safe. If you were to stupid to evacuate, then you got stuck with the group who stayed behind to LOOT and it is your own fault. You had a week to evacuate the city!!
Bill, I'll try not to presume to know exactly who you mean by "Christo-fascists", but most people usually include folks like the Southern Baptists, who have been exemplary in disaster response
_____________________
I know one of those Southern Baptists who have been exemplary in their response.
A bigot and a racist who likes to pat themselves on their back.
i was here tuesday after the hurricane i live in gretna it was like a war over here i believe if the people would of crossed the bridge they would of never lived to tell what happpen to them. we were trying to survive people were trying to steal our cars break into our houses i mean gangs of people i had to get my son out of gretna as fast as i could which i did on wednesday he was scared to death we thought we were all going to die. believe me when i say we was hungry thirsty and scared. it took gretna a couple of days to get things safe around here with the military. i am not taking up for them just cause i lived in gretna i did go to jail on my birthday for curfew.so it was not a racial thing when gretna started driving trucks of water food we all pulled together to help alot of old people in wheel chairs begging for water and food this hurricane was something we never experinced in our lives. we all tried to do the best that we could do it didnt matter what color you was we helped all. they saved the people on the bridges lives and they dont even realize it . i know it was bad for all of us i lived in a house with half a roof and took in about 10 people didnt even know them we need to stop this and think about both sides of the bridge
"How dare anyone prioritize economic assets over human lives and safety."
No, his priorities where straight; he didn't want the safety of the citizens of Gretna to be threated by an unruly mob of African Americans. Why wasn't Gretna, who's population density is the same as that of New Orleans, in such a state of chaos after the storm passed? Why wasn't Metairie, Jefferson, or Kenner for that matter?
Gretna had already been vandalized and several buildings ~ including the mall ~ had been set on fire. The police were protecting Gretna from the same fate that was occuring in the city and had every right to stop these people. There was no where for them to go and no transportation waiting for them~ only empty homes of those that evacuated. Thank you Gretna Police!!! It is sad that the bad people always ruin it for everyone else, but that is how it is.
It was a situation with no positive end. If they had let those people in the publicity would have just been and equally negative story.
If you had a home on the west bank that was not ruined by Katrina,you would love the Gretna police like we do for saving our homes! You have no idea what it was like to see blacks running around in the streets,breaking windows and stealing everything from your neighbors,and all you could do is sit,with no light or electricity,and hope your house was not next!
I live in Gretna,and can tell you,we are not all white and rich!! We are very mixed here,race and income wise.You can not imagine what it was like here in the weeks following the storm,no phones,no sleep,Damage beyond belief!It was not just the folkes on the bridge that could not get to Gretna,Cops stopped people trying to go from Algiers to Gretna,or Belle chasse to Algiers,etc. if your license did not say Gretna,you were not let in.I am so glad and so thankful thatGretna poliece blocked the bridge,and by the way....some of the gretna police were Black!!You people need to wake the hell up! Gretna was not a way out!However,there were many dry streets leading out of the city on the eastbank,and no reason to cross the bridge!
I know no one has read this lately, but for those who do. I have a few words for you: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE (WHITE, BLACK, PURPLE, GREEN OR GOLD, DOESNT MATTER) WENT THROUGH! NO FOOD NO WATER NO HOME, NO FRIENDS, NO FAMILY, NO CLUE WHAT TOMORROW WILL BRING SO WHEN YOU CAN SAY U HAVE LOST IT ALL LIKE US AND ARE SCARED SHITLESS THEN TALK TO ME UNTIL THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP!
I was in new orleans after the storm. And i am ashamed to to say im from new orleans. ive see all the blacks looting and everything they did. No respect for anything. gretna police did the rite thing.
As is common with reports from outside Nes Orleans, this only shows part of the story. The fact is that for several days after Katrina, people were allowed to cross the bridge. Many claimed to be seeking shelters or buses that were rumored to be available on the West Bank. The West Bank had no shelters, and had no buses waiting for anyone. All that was there was a large suburban area that hadn't flooded significantly, with thousands and thousands of vacant homes and businesses. These people coming over the bridge squatted in people's homes, often trashing them in the process, and they looted and partially burned a major regional mall, which remains closed except for two of its three anchors today. It was after the mall incident that the cops had enough, and closed the bridge off to pedestrian traffic, save for those who could prove residence on the West Bank. They set up cars and trucks as a blockade to stop this pedestrian traffic. They did NOT chase people back across the bridge. The gunfire incident occured because there was a large, unruly group that thought they could bully the cops into letting them pass. Shots were fired OVER THEIR HEADS to warn them to heed the police commands to go back across the bridge.
The police determined that shutting off the pedestrian flow was in the best interest of their largely vacant community. It had nothing to do with any racial issues whatsoever. Those people were coming over to rob and pillage the West Bank just as they had on the East Bank. People in Gretna were very appreciative of Chief Lawson's efforts to protect their homes and businesses, with many of them displaying signs of gratitude for many months after the storm.
I'm almost 40 yrs. old and have lived in Gretna my entire life. The cops and government here are corrupt and self-serving. The government is supposed to work for the people, not the other way around. These people here just don't get that! We have no term limits here for our local government which allows for a virtual buffet of corruption. In 2001, our water supply was contaminated with E.Coli for three (3) days before the officials here were kind enough to inform us. This incident at the bridge isn't the first f**k up for Gretna. Judges and bail bondsmen have been convicted of taking bribes, etc...! Gretna has been messed up for years, but, as has always been the case in the past, I'm sure it will remain "business as usual"! Grrrrr.......Sigh!
You have all your facts wrong. When you leave the East bank of New Orleans and cross the bridge, You come off that bridge on the West bank of New Orleans. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. If you don't live here you should not be making any dam comments. The police where standing in Gretna and they did not want people walking the streets of Gretna. The Law at that time was to stay off the streets of Gretna. New Orleans needs to protect there own people. You should be asking yourself where was your government when all of this shit was going on? Where was you government when you needed them?
I LIVE ON THE WESTBANK AND I WAS HERE DURING THE HURRICANE. I AM ALSO A RESIDENT OF GRETNA, LIVING A BLOCK FROM SAID BRIDGE. I FULLY SUPPORT THE SHERIFF AND HIS MEN FOR STANDING UP AND NOT LETTING PEOPLE CROSS. JUST ONE EXAMPLE WAS THE BURNING OF A MALL FROM LOOTERS WHO CAME ACROSS THE BRIDGE. ANOTHER WAS A MOB OF PEOPLE WHO CAME ACROSS FIRING GUNS INTO THE AIR,BUT NO ONE IS REPORTING THAT. THATS ONE OF THE REASON THE POLICE OFFICERS WERE ARMED AND SHOWING THERE OWN WEAPONS. DON'T BE SO ONE SIDED AND MAKE IT LOOK RACIAL THAT WAS NOT THE REASON FOR THE STOPPING OF THE PEOPLE COMING OVER. ITS A SHAME THIS STORY GETS A PERSONAL SPIN FROM ANY IDIOT WHO WANTS TO CRY ABOUT RACE. LONG LIVE CHIEF ARTHUR LAWSON AND THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO PROTECTED US FROM EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!
To the idiot "I Know": the local government is also the government. They should protect, everyone, not just their own redneck citizens. Jesus Christ, the South is a weird place, so backwards and moronic.
In the mother fucking United States of America, highways are PUBLIC property. Any fucking person has the right to walk alongside highways. Damn Gretna sherrifs should be shot, the bastards. This isn't feudal Europe, where it's every little fiefdom for itself (or it this case, every redneck puny town).
This is just another example of why you shouldn't live in Red Neck Land.
The last disaster down that way (Before Katrina) saw the "refugees" trashing the Gretna school, rendering it unusable for weeks. It did, in fact, resemble New Orleans, with books destroyed, desks thrown out windows, urinals smashed, walls graffitied and lockers rifled for anything of value, or even not of value, as long as it was available for the picking.
Race is not the issue. Criminal scumbags are criminal scumbags, no matter their race, and I'm not clear on why anyone is obligated to provide them a fix for their cravings.
But if everyone who is outraged agrees to take in 8 of the 800, into their home, next time it happens, I'll be happy to arrange transport. Surely 8 people can sleep on your living room floor for a few days?
Hey, Redd: He's your god, they're your rules, YOU burn in hell. You'll find me at the Beer Volcano next to the Stripper Factory in Pastafarian heaven. It's the Word. The Book says so. www.venganza.org
Hey, Larry: The National Guard in almost every state was ready to respond (I was in INDIANA, as were friends in VIRGINIA). Blame that governor of Mississippi who refused to allow us in to do our job. I suppose Bush is also responsible for your stubbed toe? The blame goes right to the top, right? No one is EVER responsible for themselves.
I wonder what you're going to do in January when you won't have Bush to blame. Let me guess: The Republicans in Congress' fault, right? Or maybe the oil companies? Or Big Tobacco? The Gun Lobby? Pit Bulls? MSG? Freon? Got to be blame around somewhere. I'm sure it's not you.
Hey, Alan: So which is it? Should the Guard help? Or are we all stupid, PTSD-afflicted murderers? Pick one. Incidentally, what did you do to help, and when did you serve your country? Or did you have "other priorities"?
SB: don't like the politicians? Don't re-elect them. Or move. Or file a suit. The fault here goes all the way to the top--the voter.
Patriot Fan: Those dried out swamps? The ones there because 60s hippie democrats insisted on levees instead of a control dam, which the Corps of Engineers and every engineering school in the world insisted would fail? Those dried out swamps?
Hey, Rogers: you haven't explained why the needs of the four(?) people in your house outweigh those of thousands of others. Where can I drop off 200 Burmese? You'd be racist, selfish and elitist to refuse. Surely you don't believe in an outdated concept like sovereign property?
I also thought it was a bastion of liberal eco-mindedness that areas that stay wet are "wetlands" and should be reverted to nature. Sounds good to me. Why throw good money after bad?
Heartless? Why, yes, I am. www.MadMikeIn08.com<>
"What the Gretna police did was a crime against humanity. "
No, what they Gretna police did was protect Gretna. New Orleans had a pack of animals who were behaving like animals. Looting and shooting at policemen and National Guardsmen? Gretna did exactly the right thing.
"1. You guys were looted by GRETNA CITIZENS!"
No, they weren't. The roving looters, robbers and thugs did not begin until several thousand "refugees" from New Orleans had already been taken in. The arrests made confirm that they were from Orleans Parish.
"2. No one was crossing that bridge to go to Gretna."
But that's exactly what they were doing. 6,000 were massed in Gretna itself at that point and Gretna had no water, power or sewage. They had no evacuation facilities.
"No one wanted Gretna's food, water, busses, shelters or whatever you guys think you have there."
Is that why thousands were asking for those very things? When they weren't doing that they were busy knocking on doors and holding guns to people's faces demanding money and jewelry.
Hello,
In response to visitor
It is still illegal to walk down a interstate highway. You do not have any right to walk down one. Gretna did the right thing. Nagan is the one who should been put on trial for neglecting the citizen of his city along wiht his idiot police chief.
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Running Time: 114 minutes
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watch full Movies - The Incredible Hulk in tvokay.com
Synopsis: Depicting the events after the Gamma Bomb. 'The Incredible Hulk' tells the story of Dr Bruce Banner, who seeks a cure to his unique condition, which causes him to turn into a giant green monster under emotional stress. Whilst on the run from military which seeks his capture, Banner comes close to a cure. But all is lost when a new creature emerges; The Abomination.
Starring: Edward Norton, Liv Tyler, Tim Roth, William Hurt, Tim Blake Nelson, Ty Burrell, Christina Cabot, Peter Mensah
Running Time: 114 minutes
Genre: Action, Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Thriller
Director: Louis Leterrier
check it out, enjoy it your self!
TO BEGAN WITH I AM A BLACK WOMAN. I BELIVE THE GRENTA POLICE DID THE RIGHT THING I LIVE IN GRENTA LA IF THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE CROSS THE BRIDGE INTO GRENTA THEY WOULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY WERE DOING IN NEW ORLEANS LA WELL NO ONE HAS TALK ABOUT THE OAKWOOD MALL IN GRENTA THAT WAS BURN DOWN BY SOME BACK PEOPLE . THAT WAS UPSET BECAUSE THEIR WAS NO WATER FOOD ON THE WEST BANK. THE POLICE DID OPEN A FEW WALMARTS AND LET THE PEOPLE TAKE ONLY THE FOOD OUT OF THE STORES....GOD BLESS AND ONLY HOPE WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THOUGH THIS AGAIN....
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